anti vegan

People Hate Vegans, Freud Could Explain Why


Animal cruelty cases are isolated incidents and aren’t indicative of the average factory farm.

Animals do not feel as much pain, fear and suffering as humans do.

Factory farms don’t contribute to the poisoning of the earth.

Cows bred for meat don’t create a massive amount of methane contributing to global warming. Hell, global warming doesn’t even exist.

Meat does not contain all sorts of growth hormones and antibiotics.

Meat is necessary for human health and survival

Well, I guess Cleopatra wasn’t the only queen of denial.

It’s easy to hate vegans when they constantly drudge up all these repressed emotions and thoughts. Obviously, there is so much more to the story, but I believe this explains a lot of the hate vegans receive.  Although I will say it is getting better. Just like legalizing cannabis and gay marriage, public perception of vegans is at an all time high. Anecdotally, social media sites like reddit seem to be much more tolerant of the idea; the public’s perception of vegans seems to be improving.

Thanks for surviving this psychobabble rant on how defense mechanisms explain why people hate vegans. I think I took a psychology class in high school, so obviously I’m more than qualified to write this.

  • Ravi K

    Brilliant and spot on :-).

  • Bill Smith

    PERFECT! This article nails it. Thank you. It should be required reading for all who go “meatless”.

  • Karen Darvin

    I’m not sure that pigs aren’t smarter than you haha

  • Jason Dunn

    Fantastic. Thanks.

  • Vegan Rob

    Well written as to the facts of what happens when someone declares that they are vegan. I have experienced these same asshole comments from meat eaters. True, I was not raised vegan, but I never mocked vegans or vegetarians when I was an ignorant, young meat eater; I think that much of the mocking stems from people’s insecurity in their daily decision making. And finally, to be honest, some people are just dumbf*cks.

    • Joel Bennett

      Things like “ignorant young meat eater” are the main reason I hate vegans

      • Matt Dickson

        Then you probably would have hated the abolitionists too.

        People hate it when they get called out on their terrible shit. Forces the same kind of self-reckoning the author of this article was talking about.

        You can hate vegans. I’ll hate people who knowingly contribute to harming other living beings and the future of our planet– all for a few minutes of enjoyment.

        • Vegan Rob

          Well stated Matt. Thank you for your compassion.

  • Meems

    This article is basically saying that the only reason people are vegans is because of factory farming. That is silly, because I’m not vegan but I don’t support factory farming either – I buy my meat, eggs & dairy from a local organic farmer. Technically, most of the vegans I know became vegans for health reasons, which is really backwards to me as I can be eating a healthy meal (albeit perhaps with lean meat, or some dairy) and watch my vegan friends eat chips and a soda. Not to mention they eat loads of soy and butter substitutes which are just as bad for you if eaten regularly. I think the issue many people have with vegans (or at least MY “issue”, if you even want to call it that. Perhaps confusion is a better word) is that veganism is such an extreme. I have read articles that liken it to an eating disorder. We are omnivores by nature, and of course it’s always a personal choice on how you eat, but the reasons and rationale behind why most vegans are vegans just doesn’t make sense to me. What happened to good old fashioned vegetarianism? Or even, better yet, just eating whatever we want without putting a label on it?

    • Camille

      You can be on a plant-based diet for health reasons, but you can’t be a *vegan* for health reasons as there is no health improvement in refusing to wear animals or use animals as entertainment, which is part of veganism.

      This article refers to factory farming as it is the most common farming practice and nearly everyone participates in it, but local farming and presumed “happy” exploitation is included. As I mentioned earlier, some vegans are not healthy because veganism is not about health, fat vegans do exist. Veganism can be considered extreme as it is the exact opposite of what 95% people eat, but there is nothing extreme in seeking to cause as less harm as possible to animals. What is extreme, is continuing to harm animals when we know it’s not necessary.

      Yes, some people have come with an eating disorder becoming vegan and obsessing with being perfect, but veganism is not an eating disorder in itself.

      Being an omnivore means you can eat whatever you want, it doesn’t mean you have to. Eating, wearing and using animals or not is indeed a choice, but it is not a personal one, or you are forgetting someone. Preferring orange over blue is a personal choice, choosing to kill and use animals over not doing it is not, just like choosing to do anything that causes suffering to any sentient being is not a personal choice.

      • Mariola Justice

        I couldn’t agree more. People who choose to eat a plant based diet solely for health reasons are not true Vegans. Vegans eat the way they do not for themselves but for all the sentient beings who are being exploited, raped, tortured and murdered daily so these so called ” omnivores” can enjoy a 5 min meal. Its about compassion and making the connection that these things…living breathing, feeling, loving beings are on this planet to live out their lives not to end up on your plate. They do not belong to us to exploit and profit. As the so called “intelligent” and evolved species we should protect and take care of them not use them for our gluttonous character which so many think is just part of being human. This is why most Vegans including myself can not stand the site of you corpse munching fucks. Remove the blinders and open your eyes…its almost as if you disconnect from the Matrix and see this world for what it really is along with all of its heinous crimes. The animal holocaust is real…and it happens every day before most of us even open our eyes. Have you ever looked into the eyes of these animals? They feel, they suffer, they love, they feel attachment and they feel fear. They are subjected to a life of torture and slaughter at the hands of the most dangerous beast out there….humans.

      • Rhiannon Hawk

        Here’s a new way of thinking…..You can be vegan for health reasons, for the health of the animals, for the health of the humans, for the health of the planet.

        • Amanda Holley


      • Amanda Holley

        ‘obsessing with being perfect’ .. nice one!!! Being vegan is a personal choice for me …. a very empowering one.

    • Lindsay Freeman Lombard

      Because it isnt a personal choice when it involves exploiting hurting or murdering a sentient being that does not want to be hurt exploited or murdered. We are not omnivores by nature and do not need to eat other animals in order to thrive or survive. We are not like lions or other animals who have ACTUAL canines and eat uncooked flesh with their bare claws and teeth. When you live in a world where it is not only possible, but easy, to live a completely healthy lifestyle and recieve all the nutrients one needs without having to murder and animal that values its own life…then why not choose that? Why not choose ethics and compassion over selfishness- especially when it involves death and suffering. “Good ol vegetarianism” does not include all the suffering that comes from dairy products- which is just as bad if not worse than the meat industry. So much flawed logic in this questioning…. I dont understand how you can ask these questions…because if you just spent a short amount of time researching the answers to these questions you would not feel the need to ask the questions out loud. You would know without a shadow of doubt WHY vegans choose to be vegan. There would be no room for any confusion. The answers are easy to find if you just take a REAL amd HONEST and open minded/open hearted look. Amd I hope you do just that. The world needs more compassionate caring people…and the animals espcially need it.

    • Kim

      This is great, Meems….it’s like you read the article, and then proceeded to make a bunch of the arguments spelled out in it. I hope this is satire. Some people eat too much soy and butter substitutes. Yep, and some people feed their kids chicken nuggets until they drop dead at 13. There are ignorant people across the board. What do you believe is more extreme? Becoming vegan? Or participating in the most massive pollution the earth has ever seen? Even “sustainable” farming, if it were to keep up with the demand, would require an extra Earth. Turns out, we’ve just got the one. Agricultural pollution of our waterways has destroyed the drinking water in some communities and some believe that it is the prime factor in changing the acidity of the ocean. Let me repeat that….run off has likely changed the ACIDITY OF THE OCEAN. That’s a lot of f’ing water. Seems pretty extreme to me. Another extreme number: 50%. That’s how many known species we’ve killed off in the last 40 yrs, most of it for the sake of clearing land for animal (or animal supportive) agriculture. If you have kids or plan on having kids and you don’t change your diet, you all deserve what you get. Enjoy the next 40 years. “Eating whatever we want without putting a label on it” has gotten us this far…does it seem like a good path?

      • Larry

        It’s none of your fucking business how I choose to eat or why.

        • Kim

          But it is, Larry, in the same way it’s my business when corporations dump chemicals into rivers or belch toxic smoke into the air. No matter how much you stomp your feet and act like an infant, you don’t live in a bubble. You don’t get to do whatever you want without repercussions, and when those repercussions affect others, others have a right to weigh in. You don’t have to like it, hell, you don’t even have to do anything except continue to be angry, but you sure as shit don’t get to tell me with any validity that it’s not my business.

          • Theresa Easley

            It isn’t your business what kind of diet a person chooses. This control freakishness could just be why vegans are disliked.

          • Kim

            Theresa, I’m afraid you don’t understand what I’m saying. Animal agriculture is ruining the earth we live on. It’s responsible for a staggering amount of environmental pollution and damage. How could that not be everybody’s business? I know that not everyone will agree not to eat meat or animal products, but something must be done to address the volume and sheer greed by which it’s produced. You want control freakishness? Ask yourself why you think it’s normal for our agricultural system to work like it does. It’s because you’ve been brainwashed and manipulated by very clever advertising, so that already rich people can get even richer. And by doing so, create a great environmental expense that your children will be paying off for decades, if they live that long.
            And that’s just the environmental aspect. It’s “not my business” in the same way that my neighbor beating or starving his dog might not be “my business” or paying for education for everyone else’s goddamned children is “my business”, and even required by the tax code! (I don’t have any-don’t want any) Anything that influences someone other than yourself, that depletes everyone’s resources, or shapes the world that we live in, IS EVERYONE’S BUSINESS. If you don’t “get” that, then there’s no possible way to explain this to you. Unless something disastrous happens to you personally…like fracking in your back yard. If that happens, I’m sure you’ll be outraged at why people are acting like it’s not their business.

    • Larry

      It’s none of your fucking business how I eat or why. I don’t tell you how to eat and would prefer you not sticking your nose into my motivations. you prove the article.

      • Gavin Smart

        It’s everyone’s business how you eat and why. If you deliberately choose to force sentient beings to go through horrific suffering and have no regard to the fact that our children may not have a future because of your actions that makes you a certifiable psychopath and we have a moral duty to do everything we can to try to wake you up.

        • Theresa Easley

          This here is why vegans are disliked. It is none of your darn business what a person eats and why. No one made you the food police. Also calling someone that eats meat a certifiable psychopath does nothing to help your cause. In fact, you come across as the certifiable psychopath.

          • Gavin Smart

            There’s no getting round the fact that the human race is facing extinction, it’s far too late for just asking people nicely. If you saw a child being beaten in the street would you just ask nicely and walk away if the person told you it’s their right to beat the child? Why do you think animals or the planet or those humans suffering because of global food imbalances deserve any less?

            Some people will always think they are better than others and that they can do what the hell they like and never think of the consequences. Running away from them because you don’t want them to think you’re an asshole isn’t going to help their victims. You can show them all the videos and facts you like and they will just taunt you with bacon jokes. Sometimes you have to be strong to effect real change. Stop allowing people to convince you that being vocal about this is wrong. They’re the assholes, not us.

    • Jayson Repko

      Just because there are products out there that are vegan and unhealthy adds absolutely zero weight to your argument. Guess what….the number of unhealthy food products in existence that contain animal products is astronomically larger than “junk food” that also happens to be vegan. You need better support to your claims. Even the healthiest eaters around “cheat” from time to time. That’s not an argument against not eating living things. At all.

    • Shiprex

      We are omnivores by upbringing not ‘nature’. We evolved from the same group of animals as apes and you don’t see them tucking into cows, chickens, pigs etc.
      Vegetarianism is just another name for omnivorism. Eating bee puke (made to feed other bees) causes bee populations harm.
      Milk products cause unnatural breeding cycles in cows not to mention the unnatural way of impregnating them and it takes a food that is meant to make a baby cow grow at 4 times the rate a human grows. Of course humanity in it’s wisdom takes that ability away from the milk by processing it for human consumption otherwise you’d be consuming all sorts of nasty things that you can find out about by researching why it is bad for humans. It’s also unnatural to consume baby food as an adult.
      As for eggs, you can consider what they really are and whether you’d consume your own species version of the same thing. I don’t think you would but then ask yourself the question why not your own but another’s?
      Just saying, not preaching.
      Living in space doesn’t change the fact that gravity exists

  • HikeBikeSwim

    The only mean comments against vegans that I’ve heard come from people associated with businesses (including lobbyists/pr reps/animal researchers and paid internet trolls) that make profits from animal products and from some people in media, many of whom know they have animal product/pharma advertisers.

  • Asha

    I talk about how much I miss eating Dog. That usually shuts people up.

    • Adrián

      Really???? hahaha
      This sounds like a good idea, i’m going to try eat :D

    • Matt Dickson

      Lets not overlook kitten meat. Extra tender.

      • Steve Bakewell

        That was a terrible joke…

        • Matt Dickson

          That’s the idea. It’s meant to illustrate a point.

          • Steve Bakewell

            What was the point? that killing a chicken is the same killing a cute little kitten?

          • César Humberto Cruz García

            Exactly, there is no reasonable difference, they are all live beings!!

          • Steve Bakewell

            No there IS a reasonable difference! bacteria you kill everyday are also living things!

          • César Humberto Cruz García

            Ok, good for you :)

          • Rebecca Mooney

            I really hope you don’t actually compare sentient and self-aware beings that feel pain and emotion….to bacteria… Bacteria is not sentient, it does not feel pain or love or fear, it doesn’t have a brain or nervous system. And neither do plants if that was your next question.

            The thought of eating dogs and cats is only horrifying to you because you were raised in a culture that keeps them as pets. If you were raised in China, you’d be eating dogs and cats like everyone else. If you lived in a culture where cannibalism was acceptable, you’d be eating humans. We all have the same desire to live and be free and happy. Let live and live – go vegan.

          • Steve Bakewell

            It has nothing to do with culture,its just evolution.. cats&dogs have been our furry little buddies for quite a while and believe it or not only certain species are self-aware.

            IDK about cats about from my personal experience i can tell you dogs are extremely faithful and they can understand human emotions that’s why i value them way more than just lobsters&chickens!

            A quick list animals that can empathize with humans :-
            5)Great Apes(obviously)

            I know i’m missing some but this is pretty much why i value dogs more than crabs&chickens.

          • Matthew DeLucia

            You you ever spent any time with the animals that you eat? You’d come to realize that they are very empathetic as well. Pigs are support lovable and intelligent, as much as any dog or cat. Chickens are quite curious and enjoy spending time with others of their kind, dust bathing and grazing for food. Chickens have also been known to form emotional attachments with their caregivers at animal sanctuaries, following them around. They also enjoy being gently stroked. Cows are typically docile creatures and enjoy the same freedom that you’d value.

            You are rationalizing up an argument to defend your consumption of these animals. You speak of evolution, so take the next step forward and stop consuming animals and their products when we live in a world where that is no longer necessary.

          • Steve Bakewell

            “You’d come to realize that they are very empathetic as well”
            No they’re not.. only Dogs are.. dogs follow you around and comfort you when you’re sad.

            “Pigs are support lovable and intelligent, as much as any dog or cat”
            No pigs are overweight,unruly and impossible to actually be domesticated as a “Pet”.. common pig’s evolutionary purpose is to be food for humans that’s it.

            “we live in a world where that is no longer necessary”
            actually no it is very necessary,it is impossible for all the 7 billion+ humans to healthily live on vegan diets(i’m just assuming you don’t support vegetarian diets).

            and also farming vegetables also kills more animals as well.

          • VSResident

            Actually, there is no way we can feed the growing world population on meat and dairy products, especially since the population is expected to grow to almost 10 billion by 2050. As it is, the farming operations we have are killing the environment between all the animal waste (see: animal waste pits) and the major clearing of rainforests to grow crops for livestock or to be used as grazing, and all the water and resources it takes to create meat and dairy. It takes 1000 gallons of water to produce just 1 gallon of milk. Think about that. As the population increases, the world needs a vegan diet more than ever. The UN recently recommended it and many studies have shown that we are in a situation of massive depletion of resources and of the environment, and that a change in diet would benefit everybody. If we fed people the crops we feed to livestock, there would be no world hunger and there would be plenty to go around with just a fraction of water usage and pollution. What we are doing right now makes no sense and is not working- we are on a sinking ship. As it is, there is world hunger and massive malnutrition, and here in the West, people are dropping dead from clogged arteries and strokes, so meat and dairy aren’t doing anybody any favors. The world could quite happily survive on a plant based diet, and in fact, many cultures do just that with no ill effects.

          • Steve Bakewell

            I never said meat&dairy products alone could feed the world population.. we also need industrial agriculture(AKA killing wild animals to make more agriculture land),ironically you’d drive pigs,chickens&cows to extinction if we stop eating them.

            “the world needs a vegan diet more than ever”
            Except only like 20% of the world can actually afford a vegan diet.

            LOL and what is a gallon? i’m not american plz use Litre.

            “we are in a situation of massive depletion of resources and of the environment,”
            and how does vegan diet stop industrial agriculture again? if anything i only see vegan diet forcing industrial agriculture to the max.

            “If we fed people the crops we feed to livestock”
            Whoa whoa what? i’m pretty sure that part requires the developed countries giving food for FREE to 3rd world countries FOREVER.

            “just a fraction of water usage and pollution”
            LOL industrial agriculture says hi!

            “What we are doing right now makes no sense”
            Exactly! we need to stop whining about the ethnics of killing farm animals that were bred FOR the sole purpose of being eaten and instead of focus on how we can balance our meat,dairy&crop consumption to better minimize the damage to the environment and also feed food to as many people on earth as possible(That includes all poor people who can’t afford Vegan smoothies and shiz!).

            “there is world hunger and massive malnutrition”
            and increased Industrial agriculture solves world hunger how?

            “so meat and dairy aren’t doing anybody any favors”
            Neither are the fertilizers,pesticides,vegetable oils,the refined sugars&grains and the everyday poison found in processed Vegan foods..

            The vegan delusion is hilarious.. it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to actually farm organic VEGAN food for 7+ Billion humans on earth yet you suggest veganism as a “Healthy/environment friendly” diet for EVERYONE on earth? BLA HA HA HA!

          • Maniac_In_BlackⓋLittleItalyNY™

            “pigs are overweight, unruly”.. and humans aren’t ?.. what an idiotic statement. Do you also think all humans are empathetic ?.. because they’re not. I guess that makes it okay to treat them however others want though.. I also assume you think its okay to treat mentally disabled people however we want, since some lack empathy. You’re perfectly fine with eating empathic beings, so why not empathic humans ? But let me guess, because they’re in the same form as you (human form), it’s totally wrong. “common pig’s evolutionary purpose is to be food for humans that’s it.” What kind of oxy moron is that ? Are you f***ing retarded ?… Rhetorical question, don’t answer that. If you knew ANYTHING about evolution, you’d know that one being didn’t evolve just for another being to have control over. That’s like religious people thinking blacks were put here by a “god” just to be their slaves. & before you try to sound smart and reply to this, think about what the article said. Don’t let that ego get in the way to defend your actions.

            The last few paragraphs at the bottom of this link are for you.
            “Scientists now know that cows have best friends; that sheep can learn to respond to their own name; that chickens exhibit cognitive abilities beyond that of young children; and that pigs show empathy and can play computer games designed for chimpanzees”

            “VSResident” said everything else that needed to be said.

          • Steve Bakewell

            “and humans aren’t ?”
            Well yeah but humans are also highly intelligent&resourceful,pigs on the other hand were bred to be overweight tasty meatsacks by us it is their evolutionary purpose!

            “Do you also think all humans are empathetic”
            No but i think that all bacon sandwiches are delicious! XD

            “I also assume you think its okay to treat mentally disabled people however we want”
            No because that’s not beneficial for our species even the chimps(aggressive apes like us)have shown that they treat mentally disabled chimps with care.

            “since some lack empathy”
            Ironically its the pigs that lack empathy.. if they could connect to humans emotionally like a dog can no way in hell would they be domesticated as food.. humans generally find dogs as loving&helping companions thus we refrain from eating them but pigs? fat pink juicy sacks of meat that burp are nothing but FOOD written all over it.

            Fuzzy puppy eyed loving companion > Fat ugly meatsacks that squeal.

            “because they’re in the same form as you (human form), it’s totally wrong”
            That and its not beneficial to our species.

            “you’d know that one being didn’t evolve just for another being to have control over”
            But it did evolve under the control of humans for a specific purpose… that’s evolution either way you look at it! Dogs,horses,bananas etc also have evolved under the influence of humans.

            “Scientists now know that cows have best friends”
            and i should care because? i care about the Elephants&whales as they’re highly INTELLIGENT beings almost as awesome as humans.

            “that chickens exhibit cognitive abilities beyond that of young children”
            Still not quite on the levels of whales&Elephants so my “give a fu*k” meter is down.. please try again later when you have an animal worth giving a Sh!t!

            I’m an omnivore i can EAT meat… if its not wrong for other animals to kill each other for meat(as they have been doing for MILLIONS OF YEARS BEFORE HUMANS EVEN EXISTED) why is it wrong when humans do the same? this is your STUPIDITY! food cycle includes animals eating animals.. humans just so happen to be at the top and i couldn’t give any less of a fu*k about the ones at the very bottom!

          • Maniac_In_BlackⓋLittleItalyNY™

            You keep mentioning whats not beneficial for our species… but you fail to mention all the bad things humans do that contribute to all whats wrong with the world and the environment. You think world wars or wars in general are “beneficial”?.. I don’t think you give a f*** about whats good for the human species or the world itself. As long as it benefits your big ass ego, its okay to do. & don’t try to deny it. Human activities are responsible for all problems in the world, except natural disasters. But as you probably know, humans are the number one reason for Increase in greenhouse
            gases in the atmosphere. But who cares right now, right ? All these things are NOT beneficial to our species (since that’s all you care about) but why is all this still happening ? Because humans are dumbasses, like yourself. Humans are the only living being that are “conscious” enough to make the right choices, but still fail to do that. You’re too focused on “what’s beneficial for humans” & totally forgetting where you are.. its called earth, and its not here just for you. Start focusing on what’s beneficial for the planet instead of the human race. Because without earth, we obviously wouldn’t be here. Don’t you understand that ? You’re a hypocrite. Instead of having the mindset, “Oh I care so much about humans, humans are the greatest thing to ever happen in the history of life. We have to protect our species. *throws garbage on ground*”… how about protecting what we live on, the natural world & its environment. Don’t ever call or consider your self to have empathy, because you are the exact opposite of it. You’ve proven that with your super flawed “logic” and you’re extremely blinded by it. Wild primates have more empathy then you do.

            “if its not wrong for other animals to kill each other for meat, why is it wrong when humans do the same?”..It’s not wrong for natural carnivores to eat meat because they HAVE to do it. Did you read that right, dumbass ? THEY HAVE TO DO IT…… do you understand ? five year old kids have more of a conscious then you do. We DONT need it or have to do it. If you think its so natural for you to eat meat, why don’t you eat it raw like REAL carnivores do ? Let me guess ..”I don’t have to eat raw meat because i’m at the top of the food chain” .. shut the f**k up. Why is it that when, say a wolf or any other natural carnivore, sees a dead carcass, they go up to it and start eating away.. but if a human comes across a carcass, we automatically plug our noses from the smell & don’t want anything to do with it ? Doesn’t that tell you anything?.. of course not, because “BACON IS JUST SO GOOD =D”… You’re NOT a natural carnivore, you’re an ego carnivore… Do you understand what that means ? ..It means you only eat for your ego & you’re eating meat in its unnatural form just to feed your delusional ways of thinking.. “Oh look at me, I’m big and strong because I’m at the top of the food chain because I eat greasy bacon! I’m so special! I love destroying the world!” That answers your idiotic question “if its not wrong for other animals to kill each other for meat, why is it wrong when humans do the same?” Do you understand now how stupid that question is ? No, of course you don’t. Don’t even reply to anything I said, you’ll just say something stupid.

            But answer this, since you supposedly like dogs.. If you had the choice to end the dog and cat meat trade, if that meant stop eating all meat, would you ? ..Say if the choice was on your shoulders, would you stop eating all meat to stop the killing of all the dogs and cats that are being killed just for unnecessary, selfish, & greedy reasons ?

          • Steve Bakewell

            “All these things are NOT beneficial to our species”
            Being the captain obvious you sure fail to realize that human species lives on this planet.

            “how about protecting what we live on, our real home”
            Oh sh!t you just opened my eyes capt.OBVIOUS! now what are your plans on stopping the evil industrial agriculture and also not starve entire 7 billion humans on earth in the process?

            “why don’t you eat it raw like REAL carnivores do?”
            Why don’t you eat raw plants like REAL herbivores do? LOL OWNED!

            “It means you only eat for your ego”
            No that’s what Vegans do.. morally self-righteous A-holes who think they’re better then everyone when in reality they’re just douchebags who are like this :-

            We normal meat eater&vegetarians don’t make a big deal out of the things we eat.

            “I’m so special! I love destroying the world”
            Sounds like vegans to me.. industrial agriculture destroys the world too but let’s not talk about that because that makes vegans look morally equal.

            Heck i actually sympathize with that Chinese woman who makes a living off of dog trade.. cus you know? i have something called a “human empathy”

            “you’ll just say something stupid”
            I highly doubt i could outdo you in that :D

            Say if the choice was on your shoulders, would you stop eating all meat to stop the killing of all the dogs and cats that are being killed just for unnecessary, selfish, & greedy reasons
            Oh that’s no fun. say the choice was on your shoulders would you stop consuming all the crops to stop the killing of the wild animals for farming?

          • Dermot

            Dude come on. Are you actually serious or are you a caricature of a brutish meat eater? It’s as simple as this: the only relevant criteria to consider when harming an animal is it’s ability to feel pain. If you’re against eating dogs and cats, then there’s no justification for eating pigs, cows, chickens, etc. The animal’s level of intelligence has nothing to do with it. But if you want to take intelligence into consideration, then look at the research being conducted on animal intelligence: pigs have been shown to be highly intelligent, as have cows, so there goes your excuse.

            Just bc humans artificially breeded animals to possess favorable characteristics for consumption, does not make it evolutionarily justifiable. That’s a prime example of circular logic: human beings breeded certain animals to eat, so it’s okay to eat certain animals bc they were breeded by humans for that purpose. Come on dude, put some thought into what you say.

            The bottom line is that you think the meat of certain animals tastes good and you don’t care if they have to suffer. It’s well within your legal right to continue eating meat, but please don’t delude yourse into thinking there’s any defensible reason; it’s for sheer taste.

          • Steve Bakewell

            the only relevant criteria to consider when harming an animal is it’s ability to feel pain
            I’m pretty sure there are ways to “Humanely” kill animals.

            then there’s no justification for eating pigs, cows, chickens, etc
            Yes there is.. Dogs,horses etc are PETS they serve us different evolutionary purpose livestock has evolved to serve the purpose of being food.. that’s how things work.

            have been shown to be highly intelligent, as have cows, so there goes your excuse
            I’ve been over this. pigs&cows are not highly intelligent animals like elephants,whales&apes.

            besides if they were then they wouldn’t be livestock in the first place and its just my opinion anyway i value Highly intelligent animals! doesn’t mean you should too you can eat whales like the japs do.. i’m not going to judge you.

            You’re still a homo sapien our ancestors survived on meat before we invented agriculture.

            does not make it evolutionarily justifiable
            Yes it does! its evolution one way or the other you’re DENYING SCIENCE if you think evolution is a mere suggestion and invalid!

            you don’t care if they have to suffer
            You mean the same way like you don’t care about Industrial agriculture killing MILLIONS of animals annually? yeah kinda like that :D but please don’t delude yourself into thinking that being a Vegan you’re not actually hurting animals.

          • Amber Lataya Haynes

            You are a nutjob. People with brain cells, why are you arguing with a freak?

          • Steve Bakewell

            You vegan are the Ecoterrorist nutjobs! i’ve had just about enough with you people.. i’ve been rational&reasonable but all i keep getting is more&more bigoted replies! i have yet to find a modicum of reason&logic here.

            Screw this website! its filled to brim with circle-jerking moral bigots where no dissenting opinion is allowed.

          • Simon

            But you are a fucking douche

          • Steve Bakewell

            No fuck you asshole!

          • Kate Marin

            Go away. These same trite remarks and tired arguments over and over are just…tiring

          • Steve Bakewell

            Well what am i supposed to say? you vegans make the same tired arguments over&over which i have already refuted like 10 comments ago.

          • Maniac_In_BlackⓋLittleItalyNY™

            “Why don’t you eat raw plants like REAL herbivores do? LOL OWNED!” Really ? .. Man, you’re an idiot. I do eat raw plants. I also eat raw fruits and vegetables in their natural state. I cant say the same for you. Have you ever heard of an apple ? What about bananas ? Carrots ?… All you have to do is pick an apple from the tree and its that simple. Its the most natural thing you can eat. Along with most of all other kinds of fruits & vegetables. Its not that hard to comprehend. I have a fruit tree in my yard that I pick from every year & eat the fruit raw, in its natural state. So I don’t know how you thought you were “owning” me.

            So according to you I’m eating for my ego by eating the most natural foods that exist ? mm, good to know.

            Here’s an article for all the other idiotic things you said. It covers the failing of the livestock system, land used for livestock feed & water usage. There’s really no point in posting it because you’ll just continue with your ignorant way of thinking.. & you’ll just totally ignore everything it says.


            I could go on with you for months and not get anywhere so I’m out.

          • Steve Bakewell

            “I do eat raw plants.”
            Oh really? without any salt or condiments? without even cutting them? no i don’t think so! both cooked meat&vegetables are usually more healthy.

            “So I don’t know how you thought you were “owning” me.
            Technically i was talking about eating raw green plants not Fruits and really i don’t think all the 7 billion+ humans on earth have the luxury of growing fruits&vegetables in their garden..

            “All you have to do is pick an apple from the tree and its that simple
            All you have to do is go and hunt animals or buy some meat like your much more intelligent ancestors used to do its that simple!

            If your hard working ancestors knew their off-spring would end up as a pathetic vegan SJW they would cut their balls off and rip off their uterus! i know i would!

            I’m eating for my ego by eating the most natural foods that exist ?
            No you make a big deal out of eating something in general! it doesn’t matter what you eat.. you’re still acting as if you’re morally above everyone else by choosing a certain diet.. which is as stupid as it gets.

            “Here’s an article for all the other idiotic things you said”
            NO HOW ABOUT YOU first address the harms of industrial agriculture and the INCREASED industrial agriculture that will be brought by the reduction of the livestock?

            “I could go on with you for months and not get anywhere so I’m out.”
            TRANSLATION:I cannot refute the logical&rational points you said about Industrial agriculture&evolution of domesticated animals Steve i give up,

          • Ray Tiberius Adler

            This is why I think we should just eat people. No one will ever agree on which animal is too cute to slaughter, clearly us Vegans are guilty of equal slaughter through eating apples, so let’s eat people. They can tell us how they feel the entire process of being raised in the factory, we can fully explain how their sacrifice is important for us to keep having bacon, and we can get them to sign waivers at the time of slaughter.
            Of course we’d have to forcibly inseminate the females and then rip away the baby as soon as it’s born, for the milk on our cereal. Probably discard any newborn boys into some sort of jumbo grinder to liquefy them (they can then be mixed with corn and fed back to mom, very efficient that way).

            And before you make any argument against eating people, I’d like to point out that lions eat people so it’s part of nature. Also, if God didn’t want us to eat humans, then why are they made of meat.

          • Steve Bakewell

            “No one will ever agree on which animal is too cute to slaughter”
            It depends on culture and evolutionary we can clearly see which animals are meant to be eaten and which ones are meant to be petted.

            and how fu*k!ng psychotic do you have to be to equate MURDER&cannibalism with cattle slaughtering!?
            “Vegans are guilty of equal slaughter through eating apples
            Technically you are guilty of killing thousands of animals by making land for growing more of those tasty veggies.

            I love how there’s not one unbiased&neutral person on this website everyone here is just a bigoted nutjob eco terrorist who is impervious to reason&Logic..

          • Jeremy Svegan

            Pigs are the 4th most intelligent animal of earth (after dolphins, chimps, and elephants). They are smarter than dogs, cats, and even a 3 year-old child. They are compassionate and are able to understand and empathize with human emotion as well. They have a sophisticated cognitive ability, communicate using over 20 identified vocalizations, respond to their names, and can even be taught to play video games. And most importantly they feel both love and pain; they can suffer every bit as much as you and I. As another poster said, there is truly no difference. ;)

          • Steve Bakewell

            there is truly no difference
            Yes there is.. evolution tells us that difference you people just don’t want to look even when i spell it out to you guys.

          • Jeremy Svegan

            Actually it does. I pretty much spelled it out for you my friend. Sorry if it doesn’t make sense to you. Doesn’t really surprise me tho since pretty much nothing you’ve said has made sense. Just typical carnist rambling. Keep on defending animal abuse tho. It makes you look like a real winner! Your children must be proud. Peace.

          • Jeremy Svegan


          • Steve Bakewell

            You are just another one here to give me your statement not listen to my arguments but brush them aside as “ramblings” GTFO! i’m not here to listen your propaganda!

            ALL I ever did was present my opinion diplomatically and i get this shitstorm of insulting,rude&preachy replies!.. I’M SICK OF THIS!

            Anyone replying to me next only has 2 options :-
            1)Address my points and behave maturely

            2)If you want to give me your statement,insult me and preach your vegan shit for 99th time kindly introduce double barrels to your temple cus i’m NOT NOT INTERESTED IN THAT!

            GOT THAT!?

          • Jeremy Svegan

            I addressed your statement, quite clearly in fact, when I originally responded to this post. What else would you like me to address? Quite honestly, it’s kind of hard to take you seriously when all you are doing is using tired, outdated arguments to defend animal abuse and your selfish addiction, rehashing the same illogical, hypocritical hyperbole that every other carnist makes, and failing even when attempting Tu Quoque. And I’ve been nothing but mature. You’re the one calling me a “biggot” for no apparent reason and slinging random insults, not me. That’s not very mature. But still, expect nothing more in return than you give either. You are the one YELLING!!! my friend. And making ridiculous claims like “you don’t give a rat’s ass about animal suffering!”. Yeah, I suppose that’s why I’ve dedicated the last 20 years of my life to activism on behalf of the animals and fighting to end institutionalized animal abuse? And “anyone who doesn’t think like you people is THE ENEMY.” No, it’s not so much if someone thinks exactly like me, but people who knowingly fund, support, and participate in systematic animal abuse and the of killing helpless animals simply for pleasure and enjoyment, like yourself, are indeed the opposition. But you’re not even being original. Your arguments and justifications are literally on the 1st grade level of carnism and have all been widely debunked eons ago. It’s hard to even take them seriously, let alone be bothered to respond to any of them. Quite honestly, you should really do a little reading up before attempting to debate in a forum such as this. And I can tell by the posts you’ve already made that you do not respond to facts or logic, so what exactly are you expecting? This ain’t my first rodeo, and I know when a debate is worth the effort. And quite honestly, your less than coherent and intelligent responses are telling me everything I need to know. The fact is once you know the facts, this isn’t even a debate. But when someone isn’t even receptive to the truth, there’s no point in expending precious energy to fight a battle that doesn’t matter. There are others out there that don’t run from cognitive dissonance or attempt to trivialize undeniable facts in the standard carnist fashion, and instead choose to embrace their compassion and consider other valid viewpoints with an open mind. And unless you are willing to show others that you indeed are willing to do so, then please don’t expect anyone to enter into any sort of serious debate with you. (Singular Truth: When you choose to do one thing, you are choosing not to do another.) I honestly think you should read the following article start to finish before even attempting to debate any informed vegan: “Eating Animals: Addressing Our Most Common Justifications” (Not surprisingly, even tho 98% of the population regularly consumes animals and their secretions, there are no equivalent articles of any credibility that attempt to defend all of the justifications, non-existent benefits, and excuses that people commonly use to justify animal abuse and their cruel, selfish addictions.) If after reading it you however still feel you have an even remotely valid argument, then I will happily put it to rest. It’s what I do. But in the mean time, this Sidekick most definitely addresses your original statement which I first responded to. Peace.

          • Steve Bakewell

            EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY is a “typical carnist rambling” you Vegans are one step away from forming a religion!
            >Keep on defending animal abuse tho
            Except you moral hypocrite! INDUSTRIAL AGRICULTURE harms animals as well!!

            You people are such bigoted&close-minded hateful freaks.. anyone who doesn’t think like you people is THE ENEMY.

            You know what? you don’t give a rat’s ass about animal suffering! you people just want feel morally superior to others.

          • Vnesa Nvoić

            Does bacteria have central nervous system?

          • Steve Bakewell

            There is no reasonable difference,they are all live beings!
            ~~~César Humberto Cruz García

          • Dermot

            Again with the elementary responses. Simple: bacteria are unicellular organisms that do not possess a nervous system (nervous systems are multicellular so obviously they can’t). In order to feel and be conscious of pain one must have a nervous system. Animals have a nervous system, so they are capable of suffering and feeling pain. Killing a bacteria is categorically different than killing an animal.

  • Agnos

    Sorry but people hates all kind of fanatics and close minded people, and sadly a lot of vegans are that. Some of them are so violent and full of rage attacking others who don’t share their way of thinking, that is very disgusting. I’m pro veganism, but we have to learn to respect peoples choices, we don’t have the truth in us!… RESPECT to be RESPECTED!.

    • Maria Lukic

      Choosing to eat others is choosing to support violence.

      Respect is earned, not given.

      • Agnos

        Well, then do not expect the no vegan people respect the vegan people!.

        • Maria Lukic

          Asking vegans to respect your decision to eat meat is on par
          with asking feminists to respect sexists, asking people of color to respect
          racists and asking homosexuals to respect homophobes. It is ludicrous to think
          that difference in opinion warrants mutual respect, especially when the
          opposing opinion in question not only stands for everything you are against but
          also appropriates suffering, defends oppression, and encourages the continuance
          of exploitation.

          • Jayson Repko


          • Theresa Easley

            So just because someone believes differently from you when it comes to homosexuality, feminism, veganism that means they shouldn’t be shown respect? We are a diverse people with diverse views, you know.

          • Shiprex

            Having a belief isn’t what this is about. This is about an action.
            Would you respect a paedophile just because they haven’t been convicted but you knew what they’d done?

          • Maria Lukic

            @Theresa sounds like you are all for people respecting racists, sexists, and homobes. I would not respect a slave owner just as a slave abolitionist would not respect them. take the time to fully read and understand what I’ve written. Then come back to me with a sensible reply if you have one.

          • Kim

            This one’s my favorite! People can believe whatever they want, but as a society, we agree that they can not do whatever they want. Can you love the idea of slavery and feel nostalgic about not having a kitchen maid? Sure. Do I have to respect that or treat it like a legitimate argument? Nope. You might believe that chaining your kid to a radiator for 3 days is an appropriate punishment for spilling grape juice on your white carpet. Does that mean that anyone has to take that seriously or care what your beliefs about child rearing are? Not even a little bit. What you are talking about is not diversity. If we embraced all types of diversities, there wouldn’t be mental institutions, rehab units and correctional facilities. To speak to Shiprex’s point (I don’t know him, so I’m only guessing), what 99% of produced animal product really is is a representation of hideous crimes against animals. Crimes that, when caught on film, have led to prosecutions, fines and occasionally, the closing of a facility. What’s been done about this, because people want to keep consuming, crimes be damned! is that is continues without question. It has become illegal, in some states, to even show people what factory farming looks like. Do you suppose that’s for your health or theirs?

          • Agnos

            When you think you are doing things right, there will be always, and I say ALWAYS, other things you’ll be doing it wrong. Unless you are an “all concerned guy”, I’m pretty sure, If you have some gadget, you (we) are supporting the salvery in some country and a lot of Human Rights issues, but that doesn’t gives the right to a Human Rights Activist to insult you, right?.

          • Gavin Smart

            I do not believe for one second you are a true vegan as you’re using the same tired old argument I’ve heard from a thousand meat eaters. The fact that someone uses a phone that was made by low paid child workers (are there any phones that aren’t) does not invalidate their choice to take themselves out of the murder industry and choose a plant based diet.

            I’ve lost count of the amount of times meat eaters have tried to pick fault in my choices because I drive a car, use electricity, etc etc.

            The fact is there are some things we can easily do and some things that will only happen through political pressure and protests.

            Becoming a conscious consumer is more than just about what we ea, but everybody knows now that eating meat is cruel and is destroying the planet so those that still do are either too young to know better, in a state of denial or are just plain selfish, whatever the reason they need to be told.

            I had many friends tell me I was being an asshole when I still ate meat and I argued with them but now I wish they’d been more pushy with me. My only regret is that it took me so long to wake up.

          • Agnos

            It is true what you have said. I don’t eat meat, but thinking again I’m not a part of your collective at all, because I don’t like how some of you do things and I don’t share some of your opinions, and according to the way of thinking of some vegans, “I have to agree” and I don’t.

            So, to be a true vegan or true whatever, I have to support what others say, or I have to agree whatever other vegan or etc say?. No thanks, I don’t need a collective to feel supported or to support my ideas. I do not like the sects of any kind!.

            What I was saying and you don’t get the point with my example of samsung is, that nobody has the right to insult you or attacked you because of your choice or beacue you are doing something that they consider wrong (if someone will take the nonsense talking about pedophilia, please don’t do it, thanks). That is what some vegans does for example to the people that wears furs. It’s great to educate people to let them know what they are using and the cruelty involved in what they wear, but attacking them throwing paint or screaming some insult. I think is not a great way to change minds, that makes the opposite!.

            I think is great to teach someone else other way of thinking, other way of life, but I’m against when someone wants to push others to do what he thinks.

            It seems nobody wants to see the point, reading some comments it’s looks like: “my cause is the biggest cause, the correct one, the greatest and the more important. I have the truth, I have the right to defend my cause with whatever I have to do, if you dont agree you are wrong and f*** y**!. You will be always wrong and I will be always right even if I’m doing it wrong too”. I’m not a religious guy but this is very truth: “You see the mote in your brother’s eye, but you do not see the beam in your own eye”.

            I’m leaving the nonsense, “we all have the reason and the truth”, “we are all perfect”. Have all of you a good day! ;).

          • Luci Bloom

            I was trying to articulate the exact same argument just last night with some vegans I know. I feel the same way totally…even if I don’t eat meat. The way many vegans approach their methods for conversion just rub me the wrong way.

            You may not have to respect other peoples choices in what they eat, but if you go and yell at them or talk down to them then there is no way in hell your intention of getting through to them is going to do what you want…in fact it will only turn them further away because no one enjoys a pushy salesperson forcing their views onto them…regardless of how righteously angry and beneficial veganism is to the planet. You all shoot yourselves in the foot.

          • Maria Lukic

            If that “Human Rights Activist” isn’t vegan, then he’s not a human rights activist. Single issue campaigns never work, because the problem is in the roots of our violence and inability to recognise the sentience and importance of all life.
            “For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.” ~ Pythagoras

          • Lavos

            Lol please shut up , nobody cares about the animals , go with a Lion or a bear to see if they wont kill u , and eat u , stop caring for animals who doesnt give a shit for you , humans will eat meat fruits vegetables fish and anything it can be eaten. soo stop with ur stupid nonsense shit

            You will never win against the glorious meat eaters.

          • Maria Lukic

            The only person who is stupid here is you, thinking you’re a “glorious meat eater”. Yeah, it’s very glorious to not have to do the killing yourself but let someone else who’s not even earning a minimum wage and exposed to dangerous equipment do it, to not have to gut and skin the animal and be surrounded by the stench of death, blood and bile, to cook the meat before you eat it so you don’t get food poisoning. Yeah I’ve heard this stupid babble before from meat heads like you, you’re nothing special. There’s nothing glorious about eating someone’s death body. But it takes someone with intelligence, morals, and compassion to determine this. And you’re lacking all of those qualities. Even Native Americans had respect for the animals they killed, and they only took/hunted as much as was needed to survive. You have sold your humanity and your respect for the stupid and shallow consumerism “I-don’t-give-a-damn” mentality.

            More and more people are becoming vegetarians and vegans every year, so yes we are winning.

          • Emily

            Just look at that grammar. That Lavos person can barely spell or string words together. Of course this argument is lost on them and their IQ of 82. Let’s not waste our time.

          • Emily

            Yes. It gives the Human Rights Activist the right to educate [insult] us.

            I would thank him for sharing his knowledge, change my behavior, and wish I learned the facts earlier.

          • Amanda Holley

            I dont respect folks for eating meat … but I do respect that they need the space to get the issues without being condemned in the process. I have many meat-eating friends, many of them are more evolved than many vegans I have met. Evolution isnt linear. Who am I to know what is really going on? IN which case, I can honour someone and hold the space for expanding awareness.

          • Agnos

            Wow, you are the people that I respect!.

          • Pete Lewis

            Maybe your friends ‘get the issues’ but eat meat anyway even weighing up the ethics and health issues because thats what works for them and their view of the world?

          • lordwobblynob

            So what you’re saying is that by virtue of not being a Vegan, I am not worthy of respect as I am on par with a homophobe or racist (i’ll compared to a nazi next)? You realise this runs entirely counter to what the article is saying and you are simply enforcing the stereotype of the angry militant vegan? Then you wonder why people are defensive around vegans…
            Presumably you would extend this disdain to anyone with an omnivorous or carnivorous pet, animal shelters that house and protect rescued omnivores and carnivores, and anyone in a third world country where they have no choice but to use animal based products?

          • Maria Lukic

            By virtue of you or anyone exploiting others/supporting their exploitation and not having a problem with it and trying to justify it to me. That I will not respect.
            I know there are vegans out there who are too afraid or concerned about voicing their true opinions on this matter to their friends or family. I’m not one of those individuals, and I don’t care what people like you think of vegans. We are trying to live without causing unnecessary harm to others for the sake of palate pleasure or convenience, the majority of the population does not. These are the facts, I will not sugar coat them for anyone. You either support animal exploitation by continuing to buy animal based foods, or you don’t.
            With regards to pets – I’ve had dogs for most of my life, they have always been vegetarian/vegan and have lived happy, full, and long lives. I have had a vegan cat when I was a child and she was 19 years old when she passed away peacefully in her sleep. She was healthy and full of energy all her life.
            People in third world countries eat a lot less animal based foods than those in first world countries.
            If you have absolutely no other choice (it’s kill to eat or starve) then I can understand and will respect that. Otherwise no, not when there is a plethora of animal free foods to eat and buy in your local shop.

          • lordwobblynob

            But it’s ok to exploit humans through purchasing sweat shop produced items, as that’s convenient? Or what about shopping in supermarkets wherein workers are barely paid a living wage? Or many other examples of exploitation that happen on a daily basis. I hazard a guess that you consume soya products and yet feel no guilt over the effects that this has on the environment where the soya is grown? I’ve seen it first hand, you should feel guilt over that, it’s not just trees that are cut down, it’s habitat for animals (before you counter – i don’t eat meat so no, i don’t eat animals fed on soya).
            Are you aware of the term ‘obligate carnivore’ and what it means? Having a Cat (or to a lesser extent, a dog) as a pet, and making it eat a vegan diet is, in itself, a form of exploitation. The product in this sense, that you’re ‘extorting’ from the cat is companionship whilst denying it the diet it has evolved/was created to eat, it has a biological need to consume animal proteins (arguing that it lived to 19 is a logical fallacy – my grandmother lived to 96 and smoked from the age of 12, does that make smoking healthy?). And yet you’re happy to draw that line?
            If we take the dictionary definition of exploitation (the action or fact of treating someone/something unfairly in order to benefit from their work), you are only exploiting an animal when you treat it unfairly. Ethically produced eggs, wool, even at a stretch milk etc, is not on par with eating meat and is not, exploitation. Ignoring for a moment that without this ‘exploitation’ these animals would cease to exist as who’s going to farm chickens or sheep purely as pets whilst discarding the wool and eggs?
            “people like you” Interesting that you know so much about me from one post as to be able to judge me on it and put me into a tidy little pigeon hole with others… feels somewhat akin to prejudice to me.
            You wrote on a separate thread “If animals were meant to be eaten…” This suggests to me you’re a deist; you believe animals have a preordained purpose from on high? It also completely flies in the face of biology whether or not you believe in god, you must surely recognise that animals eat animals. We either evolved on an omnivorous diet or were created to consume one (the bible even says to exploit animals, if you go for that particular flavour of imaginary friend).I make this point, not to detract from the point or indeed to support eating flesh, but to highlight that your logic is flawed and inconsistent.
            Judging others, as you do in your posts, because they don’t share your particular morality is exactly what is wrong with veganism as widely practiced and why it will always be on the sidelines of society. Should you wish to progress the ’cause’ and help people come round to your way of thinking, you don’t do so starting from a position wherein they are not worthy of respect. You’ve made it very clear in your posts that you have nothing but disdain for those that don’t live to your moral compass and I have nothing but disdain for people that express such narrow mindedness dogmatic views.
            As a point of interest, what about lab produced meat proteins? This is where no animal is killed or harmed but cells are grown to form proteins akin to meat.

          • Maria Lukic

            I was very amused by your comment. For one, you’ve made a lot of assumptions about me and how I live my life, which tells me everything you know about veganism – nothing.
            Veganism opposes ANY form of exploitation. Humans are animals, so yes I oppose the exploitation of human beings wherever I can – and yes this includes my wardrobe.
            So because I had a cat, I should have been exploiting hundreds, if not thousands, of other animals, to feed my cat? I’m sorry, but this is highly illogical – why should I exploit other animals if my companion can live healthy (in her case her health improved) and longer lives? It doesn’t make sense to prioritise my cat above other animals. When we adopted her, she was riddled with tumours in her liver and we were told she wasn’t going to live for more than a year (mind you she was scheduled to be euthanised the day we adopted her). From the day we had her we fed her nothing but quality and home prepared plant based foods. We went back to the vet a year later and he was shocked that not only was she alive, but she was healthy and as active as a kitten – all her tumours were gone. Animals have been exploited by the very fact that humans domesticated them. So there’s not much that vegans can do but adopt them and try to reduce the damage that our ancestors did.
            Pandas are “obligate carnivores” too, but instead they eat nothing but plants. Are you going to go and shove meat down their gullets and call their handlers immoral and accuse them of exploiting them for not feeding them meat? I thought not.
            Chickens have been here long before humans were. If you let them out into the wild it won’t be long before you have wild chickens. Cows as well. Why do you feel the need to justify their exploitation? Taking the milk from a cow or goat is taking the milk away from their offspring. You or I do not need to drink cow or goat milk just as we don’t need to drink dog milk, cat milk, giraffe milk, hippo milk, or anything other than the milk our mother gave us from her own body when we were born. So just because they are treated a bit better than other cows, it still doesn’t justify taking things from their bodies that wasn’t designed for humans.
            It’s funny that you bring up soy – all the meat heads I’ve had the pleasure of conversing/debating with always bring up soy. Tbh I hate soy milk, I prefer hazelnut, oat, coconut, or rice milk. And it’s a lot easier to buy ethically sourced soy and other plant based products than meat, eggs, and dairy.
            “You wrote on a separate thread “If animals were meant to be eaten…” This suggests to me you’re a deist”. No my dear, merely from an evolutionary stand point. I am agnostic.
            I’m glad you brought up animals eating animals. They do this because it’s in their nature, and they have no other choice – I have yet to see a cheetah or other predator start an agricultural revolution. You and I on the other hand live in a world where we can go to our local farmers to buy plant produce, or visit local markets and supermarkets. That’s the difference between the human animal and the non humans out there – we have a choice, and sadly people choose to exploit non human animals.
            With regards to judging, you will find that every abolitionist vegan out there will judge you on your words and views concerning animal rights and the use of animal products. I do not respect the immoral choices people make by eating meat; however that does not mean I do not give them consideration or feel hatred towards them, on the contrary. I hope that people will one day realise the significance of life, not just the significance of human life, and to show respect to all sentient life forms and the planet. I believe that deep down people are inherently good, we’ve just lost our way with nature and stability. We try to control everything and everyone around us, but our mission should be be achieve and maintain balance.

            It’s funny, if you didn’t say that you didn’t eat meat in your comment, I would have mistaken you for a head strong meat eater…

          • lordwobblynob

            I think you misunderstand what the term ‘obligate carnivore’ means. A carnivore is an animal that eats meat , that a panda doesn’t eat meat means it’s not a carnivore. It has the physiology of a Carnivore but due to an interesting symbiosis with gut bacteria, they’re able to eat vegetation.
            An olbigate carnivore is an animal that HAS to eat animal proteins, in the case of cats is due to their inability to create Taurine, so they need it from their diet. As you can only get Taurine from animal proteins, they need to eat meat. That your cat didn’t die only means that somewhere in its diet was a synthetic source of Taurine.
            The reduction in cancerous cells is largely explained due to switching away from mass produced pet ‘food’ which is packed with known carcinogens.
            I’m not arguing that not eating meat is a bad thing, i haven’t eaten another vertebrate for a little over seven years. It’s your lack of respect for your fellow humans that I take issue with (you yourself said you don’t respect non vegans and draw parallels with racists and homophobes). I’ve made no assumptions about you that i am aware of. I’ve had to make a couple of presumptions, but that’s the nature of this kind of discussion, but i’ve been careful to base any of these on the information you’ve provided. Where you disagree with this, I’d ask you to note them.
            I have chickens, four in total. They are, realistically, pets. However, a by product of this is that three of them produce eggs which we then eat. Were we to simply keep them as pets and discard the eggs, somehow you seem to think this is better? Explain the exploitation there.
            If you think that cows and chickens could simply be released into the wild, i suggest to reassess what you ‘know’ of their past. There is no such thing as a wild dairy cow. Were they released into the wild they would die from secondary infections as a result of mastitis and other complications as they now produce far more milk that their offspring would consume. In fact the majority of farmed animals have been so heavily selectively bred of the last ten thousand years that few could survive in the wild, even if a habitat were available to them.
            So you think there is a purpose behind evolution; that animals have nervous systems means they are not meant to be eaten? and yet you concede that other animals eat animals, thereby suggesting that they are indeed meant to be eaten as these species have evolved together to for a predator/prey symbiotic relationship (remove the predators and the prey out breed for their environment and die off due to a lack of food, meaning that as a species they need selective predation, not by humans I hasten to add).

          • Maria Lukic

            I know very well what obligate carnivores are. If I had the chance to go back in time and feed my cat differently, I still would have made the same choice because she had a very productive and happy life, and I would not have wanted to change that for the world. I will say again – there is no moral justification for me to have exploited thousands of other animals to feed my cat when there are other options and specifically formulated vegan cat foods that you can purchase.

            A panda fits every text book description of a carnivore – length of intestines, teeth, jaw, claws…etc. A panda is a carnivore, yet they eat plants.

            Animals in the wild will do whatever it takes to survive. Deer have been known to catch and eat fish if there is no food.
            You trying to justify your stance on obligate carnivores by bringing my treatment and care of my cat, whom I loved as a member of my family, is absurd.

            Yes you’re right there’s no such thing as a dairy cow in the wild, because she gives her milk to her offspring, not people, and is not pumped with hormones and antibiotics to MAKE them produce more milk. Cows in their natural habitat, free from human control, do not develop mastitis.

            You presumed that because I have no respect for the choices people make in eating animal products that I do not have any respect for them at all, or that I do not value humanity. I am human, and I want humanity to wake up and realise that the consumption of animals and other animal products is unsustainable and not only detrimental to our health, but to our planet. I value human life, because I know that when humans want to and when they believe in something worth fighting for they can achieve unbelievable things, show incredible feats of heroism, altruism, and compassion. How many times must I say this – I will not respect the CHOICE you make in eating your pet chicken’s periods, or the dairy you buy from your local farmer/market. Why? Because there is absolutely no reason for you to be consuming these things. You only eat it because it’s convenient, or you’re used to it, but that’s not an excuse. The meat, dairy, and eggs diet is a lazy one. I don’t doubt that you care about your chickens, but ask yourself this: do you REALLY need to eat their menstrual cycles? Think of it this way: if you had a dog, she got pregnant and had her puppies; would you take her milk? Of course you wouldn’t! You have no need for her milk, just like you have no need of the eggs your chickens lay.

            As for evolution, no animals were “meant” to be eaten. Not all plants are meant to be eaten either, but some of them have evolved to develop symbiotic relationships with animals and rely on their fruits being eaten to spread their seeds.

            The number of predators is far less than the number of prey animals in the wild. It’s natures way of population control and ecological stability. If you want an example of this, watch How Wolves Change Rivers, it’s readily available on YouTube.

            If you really want to try to understand my stance and why I fervently believe no animal products should be consumed by humans, please read or watch some of Gary Francione’s works and interviews:

            Not using nonhuman animals as resources is a first step to a nonviolent life. It’s the minimum standard of DECENCY.

          • aD1cted

            asking vegans to respect someone’s choice on eating mean is not the same as asking feminists to respects sexist, but rather asking feminists to respect someone’s different opinion on the matter (ex. thinking men and women can never be the same) this kind of opinion doesn’t make the person sexist btw

          • Maria Lukic

            You have clearly not understood the glaring message of discrimination in my comments. Don’t try to twist my words to suit your needs.

          • aD1cted

            And what are those needs exactly?
            You know there’s a difference between Respect and Acceptance and I think you’re making confusion.
            You don’t have to accept anybody’s opinions or thoughts, their going against what you stand for and support things you don’t support…
            But you should respect the fact that others don’t share your point of view. And there’s another difference here – you don’t have to respect their opinion, just respect the fact that they think differently.

            I get your reason to be vegan, but you’re method of sharing your opinion won’t really make people understand. If when you argument you make an insult it won’t help much. I just kept sharing my opinion with my mother (we just eat too much meat, mom, some more vegetables would really be great [I can’t argue with the animal violence and conditions because we don’t eat beef and the animals we eat come from farms with great conditions, space and care, and are killed when they start getting old, instead off letting them die naturally and then have a dead body]) and now we eat much less animals (my dad and brother still don’t get it), but little is better than nothing. But if I had been the way you are I doubt my mom would have changed the menu.

          • Maria Lukic

            “You know there’s a difference between Respect and Acceptance and I think you’re making confusion.” No, I am not. I don’t have to respect people’s twisted views. It’s like asking me to have some understanding/be more “gentle” with my choice of words when it comes to people who are bullies or think that might equals right. No! I will not be lenient or respectful to those TYPES of views/opinions, just as I won’t respect an animal abuser, a child molester, a rapist, a racist – anyone who is discriminating against someone they believe to be weaker. You may as well tell a slave abolitionist that they should stop petitioning and fighting for the freedom of human slaves. That’s just plain ridiculous! THIS is what is wrong with this world and, unfortunately, everyone has “accepted” that everyone has a “right to their opinion” and we should be respectful of that. I’m sorry, but when that OPINION, or should I say “different way of thinking”, involves BULLYING those weaker than you, there’s NOTHING that should be respected or accepted about that.

            It’s unfortunate that you have accepted the type of world we live in and the mentality of bullies instead of standing up for what you believe in. The world is what WE make of it!

            “I get your reason to be vegan, but you’re method of sharing your opinion won’t really make people understand. If when you argument you make an insult it won’t help much.” Oh people understand compassion and kindness alright, they just need to understand that if it’s wrong to eat a dog or a cat, it’s wrong to eat any animal and their bodily secretions. I’ve seen omnis calling Asians barbarians and low-brow savages – which is racist and discrimination when they themselves are chowing down on the mutilated flesh of an animal. You don’t need to eat animals to get nutrients, they are readily available and in their pure forms from plants, beans, seeds, nuts, legumes, and fruits. I find it amusing that telling people the truth is considered “insulting”. Really? I find it insulting that over 56billion land animals and over a TRILLION marine animals are killed for gluttony….now THAT is insulting.

            “we don’t eat beef and the animals we eat come from farms with great conditions, space and care, and are killed when they start getting old, instead off letting them die naturally and then have a dead body]) and now we eat much less animals”. You are still paying for someone to kill them. You are supporting their exploitation. And how old is “old”? You do know that the average lifespan of a chicken is 8-10 years right? Ducks – 10 to 15 years, depending on species. Pigs about 8 years, 10-12 years for sheep…etc. What gives humans the right to decide who lives and who dies and what their purpose in life should be? Just like we don’t kill our cats and dogs when they get a bit old and weary we shouldn’t be killing off “food” animals.

            You’re not the only one with an omni family btw. I’ve helped my family to reconsider animal products not by being gentle with them and acting like a mouse in a lion’s den, but by educating them and making them understand WHY consuming animal products is detrimental. It’s a learning process, and learning can sometimes be difficult and uncomfortable, especially when the truth goes against everything you’ve been taught your whole life. My father is a professional basketball player and 5 years ago was a hardcore meat eater thinking he needed to eat animals to get protein. After he was told that he was getting too old and that they might have to let him go because his performance was dropping, I sat him down and we had a very long discussion about animal products and he decided to become vegan. Now he’s almost 48 years old and still plays professional basketball – his performance is even better than the players half his age – and if he read your comment now he would say that if I didn’t push him and challenge him, he would be fat, sad, and out of a job that he loves. If you want CHANGE, you have to DO something about it, and the best thing you can do is educate people and challenge them to THINK FOR THEMSELVES. Skirting around the issue will not help.

    • Kim

      Most of the people talking about respect aren’t willing to give it. What’s respectful about putting a sow in a crate and letting her languish there while she pisses and shits on herself so that you can eat her offspring? Please remind me what is respectful about continuously impregnating an cow so that we can rob her of her calves and milk her to exhaustion? Attack is subjective, and words can hurt, but in my opinion, an “attack” is sending millions of male chicks through a masticator because they had the gall to inconvenience us by being born. It’s true, hypocrisy does incite rage, but acting as though it isn’t appropriate is called “gaslighting”.

      • Agnos

        One wrong thing doesn’t make another wrong thing correct!. All the things you said are wrong acts, we agree!, but it’s also wrong when vegan people don’t respect other peoples choices and start insulting them because they don’t share what they think.

        • Rhiannon Hawk

          There is a huge difference between thoughts and facts.

          • Guest


          • Agnos


        • Erin Colvin

          Don’t get yourself turned around. Remember what the article was about .

        • Amanda Holley

          it makes no difference or impact to agree these are wrong acts … unless we DO something about it … at the very least stop buying animals as products whilst suppressing what we know. I agree that there are vegans who dont respect others and they are inherently angry and seem to need an outlet … but these angry folks occur in all groups of people, not just vegans. So do you disrespect all the angry folks or just the vegan ones?

          • Theresa Easley

            Vegans on here are showing how closed-minded they are.

          • Amanda Holley

            The thing is, its nothing to do with their being vegan … human beings can be very closed-minded. The problem is that we apportion our experience to something like ‘being vegan’, when that simply isnt it. We meet closed-minded folks everywhere.

          • Robert Hayes


          • MahouKame

            Right? I hate closed-minded people. Just because I might like to murder and eat human beings and you don’t, why presume to disrespect my choices as a cannibal? I mean, really… Who does it hurt anyway?

          • Allie

            Who does it hurt? The millions of starving people all over the world, do you realize that the grain that is used to feed the animals in these factories can end world hunger???

          • disqus_8Jc4KTPlti

            Allie I think he is being sarcastic!

          • MahouKame

            Ah, thanks @disqus_8Jc4KTPlti: Hard to believe someone could’ve missed that, but there ya go! ;)

          • MahouKame

            Yes. Yes I do. Do you realize how intentionally ridiculous my example was, and how it served to further that point?

          • Agnos

            I’m against of all kind of ignorant violent way of doing things!. As I’m here pointing what I don’t like from Vegans, I do the same with Hunters and other issues.

        • Robert Hayes

          Agnos, you are not thinking about what you are saying. The expanded version of your statement is: [ It is wrong when someone doesn’t respect another’s choice to deliberately inflict immeasurable psychological and physical pain on a vulnerable individual; including killing him or her. ] Are you saying I should respect people who impose horrific violence on some gentle non-human mother and her child? Why would you choose to respect a person’s choice if that choice epitomizes wickedness?

        • Agnos

          When you think you are doing things right, there will be always, and I say ALWAYS, other things you’ll be doing it wrong. I was in a reunion with some friends (not all vegans by the way), one of my vegan friends start writing using his samsung galaxy phone. A guy comes to him to tell him that his phone was made of slavery and death!. My friend was upset and an argument starts.

          The other guy was a Human Rights Activist, he told my friend that he is supporting child labor, slavery and death, because he bought that samsung phone without researching what he was buying. The guy is right, that is the truth (, but my friend was upset because he believed he was a very eco-friendly “all concerned” guy, and turns that he is not!, and also because the Human Rights Activist verbally abused my friend at some point (to be honest both).

          The point is, the Human Rights Activist, he had the right to insult my friend or not, even when he is right about his claim?. Is the same as you guys, you think you are doing a great thing not eating meat (I agree, I do the same), but that doesn’t give us the right to insult others, unless we were some kind of “angels” all-know guys that are concerned about every ethical issues out there in the world. Turns that I’m not that kind of guy, because I’m human, even when I don’t buy samsung because I was aware about their Human Rights issues, I’m sure that I’m failing at some point in another thing, and you? :).

          • Emily

            Thank you for providing your insight in a respectful way, Agnos. It’s hard to find logic in the other side when it is being yelled at you. As for your example of your vegan friend and his Samsung phone, I am curious if he still has that phone. Most vegans aren’t educated on all atrocities in the world, but when they learn about them, they certainly don’t continue to contribute to them through voluntary ignorance.

            I think that is the difference here. Meat-eaters know exactly what horror they contribute to, but they choose to do it anyway. The way phones are made is not such common knowledge. Personally, I just found out about the phone industry a year ago, and I decided to go without a smart phone because of it. Just like when I learned where all those cheap clothes come from, I decided to buy things that are ethically made.

            It’s true that the world is full of horrible injustices, but do you think that justifies doing NOTHING to make the world a better place just because you can’t do EVERYTHING?

            That being said, I don’t push my beliefs on others. Sharing knowledge is one thing. Attacking will get you nowhere. But this article is about vegans feeling attacked by the meat-eaters. Not the other way around.

      • Erin Colvin

        Love it Kim! You nailed it!

      • Amanda Holley

        Very well put, thank you.

      • Vee

        Thank you. Brilliant. I get so tired of being expected to ‘respect’ people’s “personal choice” to support violence.

      • Debbie Bemister

        Very well-stated. Thank you.

    • Adrián

      Dude, you are doing it…
      Not all vegans are fanatics, don’t be a fanatic close minded! xD
      Check mate!

      • Agnos

        I say a lot, not all. I’m not a violent fanatic fighting with insults against the non vegan people. But just look at some facebook vegan page and read the comments, there are a lot of violent fanatics insulting others who don’t share their idea, because they don’t know how to express their ideas, they tend to start insulting others. That just makes the non vegan people think that all vegans are fanatics.

        • Amanda Holley

          But not all of them! There are more rounded folks out there who know not all vegans are fanatics …. I meet lots of them … and when i meet the ones who think we are all the ‘meat is murder’ crew , we usually have a very good conversation.

        • Robert Hayes

          “Violent fanatics”? How can an insult even be violent? And what is a fanatical vegan? Is that someone who doesn’t deliberately cause anyone harm with an abundance of zeal? Someone who is excessively mindful others? Or, someone who stridently speaks up for those who are suffering and denied a voice? Fanatical vegan sounds like a compliment to me.

          • Agnos

            Yes, I see you are. The problem is that insulting those who do not agree with you, you accomplish nothing. The insult will always be seen as the resource of the people who doesn’t have good arguments, even if the cause is great!.

    • Rhiannon Hawk

      When a person states that they think we have a choice, they are forgetting about the choices that are completely taken away from other sentient beings. This could also stem from them having a certain attitude about their own sense of identity based on superficial superiority in their ego where they “believe” that god put animals here for us. Then I would ask them why they do not eat dogs, or cats, or cougars.

      • Agnos

        There are people in China and South korea eating Dogs and Cats, because is their “culture”. I’m sorry but talking about “god” with an Agnostic like me is pointless, but taking your own words, then we vegans have to stop eating vegetables because it’s proven that they feel pain?.

        • Shiprex

          Plants feel pain. According to which religion?

          • Agnos

            Religion?, no please! :). According to Science.

          • Maria Lukic

            Plants do not have a nervous system. Plants do not scream, howl, and try to get away from you if you are hurting them.
            If animals were meant to be eaten, they would be more like plants – they would have spare body parts that would grow and drop off when they’re “ripe” like fruits and vegetables do and it wouldn’t hurt them. If you give plants a trim, cut off some branches or pick up their fruit, the plants are just going to grow them back. You cut off anything from an animal that’s it for them, you’ve crippled them for life.
            Besides, if you’re really concerned about the plants, you should be a vegan – think how many plants you’ll be saving from being eaten by over 56billion land animals meant for slaughter every year

          • Agnos

            Again search for the experiments and studies, read them complete and please don’t start denying what is obvious, just because is “not good” to our way of living or doing things. That is the same Hunters does with every research proving the importance of wolves to the eco-system, they deny it with the nonsense or with their own ideas as facts, just to keep killing wolves. We have to learn and not believing what we think just because we want or we beleive it, real knowledge before everything!.

            People don’t get the idea because are self centered and because they really believes that they have the truth, I’m tired. My point was, you, me and them, we are not special people with the power to judge others as some of you does, but I don’t care, keep doing it and I hope that when someone does the same to you, all of you accept the criticism with humility (doubt it)! :).

            Sorry I left this nonsense, I will keep eating vegetables even if every day with every new study is proved that plants feels, even when all of you want to deny it, that doesn’t matter, is SCIENCE you can’t deny it!.

            Have a good all of you!…

          • Maria Lukic

            That science you keep hinting to about plants having “feelings” had been disproved. That theory you referred to is ancient, it was brought up in 1848 by a psychologist – which in my opinion does not qualify as scientific evidence. Look up Fein, Alan (2012) “Nociceptors and the Perception of Pain” University of Connecticut: Health Center. You will find true scientific evidence there that plants. Don’t. Feel. Pain. You can’t deny science.
            Vegans have the facts straight and the majority of us have read every scientific paper there is out there on diet, nutrition, and environmental impact. A vegan lifestyle is a lot less taxing to the environment than a vegetarianand meat eating one. That’s why we are so enthusiastic about it, because it does more for people and animals than single issue campaigns ever could.

          • Aline Baldino

            Excuse me?! Is there any proven theory that plants have a nervous system, like neurons or anything resembling that? I’d really like anyone to come up with just one successful experiment in this field before they go on using this kind of statement.

          • Agnos

            Search for them please, I will not do the job for you. There are some succesful experiments proving that plants “feels”. But I guess as always happens, people will take all the information according to their interests, to support or dismiss the investigations!. I will not answer any more is enough nonsense for me, have a good day! :).

          • Shiprex

            Done the search the answer is no they don’t have a nervous system although they can react which is not a sign that they experience fear or have sentience. Animals do and have.

          • Aline Baldino

            So you just like to debate with everyone and then when anybody asks you for the foundation of your thoughts or “theories” you just run away saying you refuse to show them proof or at least reasoning of whatever nonsense you are stating?

            I could say that unicorns exist because I’ve seen plenty of pictures of them all over the internet. Bam. Your are now a firm believer of unicorns, I suppose.

            I’m sorry, but you can’t expect people to simply take your word when you are trying to debunk years and years of anatomy studies. Yes, it is the same argument meat eaters/hunters will use. Everyone expects you to make sense before they take what you’re saying for true.

          • Camille

            Plants react, but nothing shows they can feel pain. Of course they have to “feel” when their leaves are cut or being eaten or something else because otherwise they couldn’t make them grow back. The same way your immune system “feels” when you are sick or going to be sick to defeat the illness, but the immune system doesn’t feel pain.

            You know what is the purpose of feeling pain? Pain exists so sentient beings can detect danger to avoid it or escape from it. Plants can’t avoid you when you’re cutting their leaves, they can’t escape from you when you are trying to pull them out of the ground, they really can’t do anything about it. Pain would be really uselessly harmful to them if they had the ability to feel it, and it would be very illogical to think they have this ability when it is of no use for them. They can be “aware” of what is happening to them without feeling pain.

            And EVEN IF plants did feel pain, the point is that we actually need to eat plants to survive while we don’t need to exploit animals at all. Plants feeling pain could never be an excuse to make both plants AND animals suffer. “people will take all the information according to their interests” The possibility of plants being sentient is in no way against the interests of vegans as vegans seek to cause the less harm possible and veganism just happens to be the lifestyle causing the less “pain” to plants, since it takes so much more to feed the animals exploited… I am open to the possibility that plants could feel pain, but as I explained earlier it would be very illogical and no study (and yes, I have researched the subject) has ever shown that they are sentient, just that they detect things and react to them.

        • Rhiannon Hawk

          Plant do respond via receptors, but they do not have a central nervous system and can not feel pain. And in reference to my last post I am not talking about any “god” that I would “believe” in. I am just stating that the general masses who eat animal do believe that animals are here for us humans to do with as we please.

          • Agnos

            Sorry, read the studies first and look for the experiments, they are very clear. But I know people will dimiss everything that is not good to their own interests and to feel comfortable!. I will not answer anymore the nonsense, the information is free for all, look for them!. Good bye! ;)

          • Rhiannon Hawk

            Do you suggest then that people eat nothing and become breath-atarians? For more fields of grains and plants are propagated for the animal agriculture than the plants that all of humanity eats world wide. Takes twelve pounds of grain to produce one steak.

      • Amanda Holley

        But most meat eaters have separated themselves sufficiently to not worry about the sentient beings … when i discuss with meat eaters I hold the space for folks to get this for themselves… and that is a journey of awareness that everyone has the right to take. It took me years before I got it …. and if anyone headbanged me with some of these arguments it really didnt help! I simply didnt get it … now I do … and i always listen for where someone is and how willing they are to evolve…. otherwise theres no point, wasted energy. So, I avoid ‘right and wrong’ situations. Much kinder too.

    • Vlad

      As Gary Yourofsky stated, we all judge serial killers, torturers, rapists, child and spouse abusers, etc. and we neither respect or accept those people’s choices. We can respect people’s right to choose, but the choice of contributing to misery, torture and death, is not something that you could expect ethical vegans to respect. That being said, I agree that communication with non vegans should be done in a respectful manner, understanding that they are many forces that keep them from opening up their minds and hearts to the vegan message. Condemn (in your mind) not the person, but their behavior and try to get them to take first steps or even just start to consider animal suffering.

      • Shiprex

        Exactly it’s the behaviour not the person that is the problem.
        When flesh consumers learn that all it takes is a change in behaviour and not in them then they can see the truth

    • Michael McNew

      Freud’s defense mechanisms: Hostility on both sides tends to validate what Freud said about people trying to protect their egos.

    • Fallen Virtue

      while you do have a point , i think that forwarding my ideals ,not making things up just to prove my point is my right ,is my right more than anyone’s right to own and kill a sentient being. Surelly i may annoy a few meat eaters at times (though it’s usually the other way around ) ,but i don’t think that earing my opinion can even be compared to the pain that people indirectly cause when they buy meat. If murdering people would be legal would you shut up? to some animals should have the same right to live than men since this planet is not ours.that being said nothing good comes from being aggressive they only make people step away

    • Denise Wilson

      No we dont and shouldnt have to accept people’s choices. That is a cop out. That is cowardly and ignorant. It is a moral issue not a choice issue. . As someone above said … ” would you accept someone’s choice to torture a puppy” …..or rape a child. No no and NO . we need to speak up loudly for those who have no voice. It is your absolute obligation and moral resposibility.

    • guest

      Exactly! If you don’t like rape, don’t rape, but respect people who choose to do so. Raping is soooooo good!

    • Vegan Rob

      Saying that we should respect people’s choices to eat animals is parallel to saying that we should have respected the Nazis for murdering innocent people because it was their (Nazis) choice to oppress others. Animals are going through a very real holocaust at this very moment. It is up to all compassionate people to speak out on behalf of our voiceless friends and loved ones.

  • Mijamoto

    I always say I’m vegan with proud. I’m proud that I had so strong mind to become vegan. If you’re saying that you’re vegan with kind of shame in your voice people think that you’re ashamed and they start thinking, that it’s a shame to be vegan, where it is exactly opposite! Give them good reason if they’re curious. There are millions unquestionable of reasons to support veganism and only one reason against – a taste of meat! Let them know, that THEY should be ashamed. They’re just too weak to make a change. Spread veganism instead of sitting in silence! Even if people are against, if you give them good reasons, show them how their food die and put a seed of thinking about it, in their heads. I converted few people already and even those, my friends, who still eat meat, respect me and even make vegan meals, when they invite me to their homes! Good luck! :)

    • Olivya

      Good on you. If vegans could be more vocal about their reasoning behind their choice without being shut down, I would have converted much sooner from vegetarianism.

  • CDekat

    I don’t know anyone who hates vegans. I run with a crowd that includes vegans, vegetarians and carnivores, so this is all news to me and kinda makes me glad I don’t live where you do. Thank goodness this isn’t true everywhere!

    Might want to aim for mutual respect. Be the change you want to see in the world. Show the meat-eating haters how to respect a choice different from their own.

    • Amanda Holley

      Hee hee … like it. ;-) Absolutely.

  • Arev88

    This is awesome! I have trouble dealing with people with people trying to be funny or hurt me because I am a vegan. This is my second year as a vegan and I still can’t get used to people coming up with the things stated on this article. any good advise that works to deal with this people??? thanks in advance!!!

    • Alexandra C

      stop hanging out with mean people.

      • Amanda Holley

        I think as soon as we are resolved about all these arguments then the ‘mean people’ simply dont show up anymore either … I used to meet angry vegans … I now meet gorgeous ones … but i meet gorgeous others too, being vegan doesnt make someone nice!! Sadly …

    • Gavin Smart

      My advice is do not for one second change who you are or how you behave because of them. In a few years time you’ll notice some of them cutting out meat and some may even come to you for advice. The ones that don’t probably aren’t worth knowing anyway ;)

  • Larry

    This is perfect. The biggest asshole comment I get is, Don’t you realize plants have feelings too? It’s none of you damn business how I choose to eat.

  • Alexandra C

    or they could just be you actually surround yourself with such people or are you referring to social networking? B/c i’ve been veg for 28 years and have never encountered the bacon nonsense..people may be interested or think it is weird but they don’t go out of their way to taunt me. btw don’t use “myself” non-reflexively.

  • Heidi White

    I used to be one of those omnis who thought vegetarians were obnoxious
    (vegans weren’t even on my radar! vegetarians were bad enough :P). I
    had an anti-veg soap box…I gave the few veg’s I knew a hard
    time……. Looking back, I’ve often wondered how I could have made so
    much of something I understood so little about…wondered at the psychology of it all, etc. This article kind of
    helps add another piece to my theory. I hold more with Carl Jung’s
    theory of the enantiodromia which is probably not too far off from this
    Freudian theory as they were contemporaries and even colleagues for
    awhile until Jung had a hard time accepting Freud’s more reductionist
    theories and broke from him…

  • Adrián

    I Think this really looks true.
    In my experiencie, when other people know that i’m a vegetarian, this things happens and i have already thought of this in the past; this just seems like a confirmation…


    People hate vegans because they come off as arrogant pricks 90% of the time. I live ina town with a lot and maybe a handful are tolerable to be around. They are like the Glenn beck of food.

    • Agnos

      That is what I’m talking about, even If I’m vegan, I don’t like the most of the vegan people I have met. They are always judging others like some kind of superior people, full of moral, knowledge, ethics and integrity, like religious fanatics!.

      • Camille

        Vegans are not doing that for their ego, or else they wouldn’t do it as it brings them so much hate (it’s way easier on your ego to be a meat-eater, as you have 95% of the population defending your lifestyle and agreeing with you). They are doing it for the animals who cannot speak for themselves. And if there weren’t people to speak for those animals, the people who would realize by themselves that the animal exploitation they’ve been participating in their whole life is wrong would be way too rare for any change to happen. I would have never gone vegetarian if no one ever exposed the reality of the meat industry to “respect people’s choices” and I would have never gone vegan if Gary Yourofsky just went vegan without ever confronting anyone about animal cruelty to again “respect people’s choices”

    • Erin Colvin

      Maybe they come off that way to you because your view is being distorted by that huge chip on your shoulder that you’re trying to see around. Just sayin’ :-/

      • IIDON

        I have some that are good friends but as i said the general population come of as i am better than you types. When acts like they are above someone because of religions races or what ever food they eat they become “pricks”. being able to say i do something but not judging others because of what they do is a far better way of life.

        • Shiprex

          That’s your subconscious reacting just as it said in the article. Well done you’re on the road to veganism. All you need to realise is the behaviour is what needs to change and not the person

        • Maria Lukic

          Everyone judges, don’t act like vegans are the only ones. By calling vegans pricks you are judging them.
          Everytime you meet someone you are judging how they look, walk, talk; everyone does that. It’s part of who we are as a species. You are just upset because those “arrogant pricks” had the nerve to judge you face to face instead of pretending and lying to your face then judging you nastily behind your back.

        • Camille

          Vegans are judgemental… right. As if meat-eaters weren’t judgemental themselves by judging that animals don’t matter and should be exploited and killed for their palate pleasure.

  • Monica Friedman

    Having been, at various times in my life, strictly kosher, strictly vegetarian, and strictly paleolithic, I can say from experience that people will act stupid about any dietary decision that differs from their own, because food is generally a great commonality and thing that brings us together, and adopting a specialized diet sets you apart.

  • Veronica Uhlig

    I’ve been dealing with this for 24 years and my boyfriend was a meat eater when we met I never ever tried to make him change or pushed my beliefs on him but I also never cooked meat for him. 4 years later he is now a vegan and so are some of my friends and it’s not because I pushed them or forced my views they CHOSE a vegan lifestyle because they are compassionate. I love all my friends and family because they accept me and they all really try to adopt a less violent life. I feed, educate and show my friends and family that being vegan is o k, hard sometimes, but worth it. I show respect and I get respect back from them. They may not all be vegan but at least they don’t criticize vegans and I would like to think it’s because they actually know one.

    • Amanda Holley

      Great, well done. Perfect.

  • Jami

    Despite the general awesome-ness of this article, I’d just like to point out that the line about bacon being “sliced off of filthy animals that wallow in their shit all day” is annoyingly false. Pigs actually avoid messing in the same areas in which they eat and sleep, which makes them rather clean by many animal standards… they roll in mud to keep cool because they have no sweat glands. It bothers me to witness a self-proclaimed animal-loving vegan using such a justification for not eating an animal.

    • Jocelyn Panko

      But pigs in factory farms dont get to do the things they naturally do. They have no room, they are packed in like sardines, and because of this live in their filth. When they are murdered the “meat” is exposed to blood shit and filth. I agree with your sentiment though. Its disrespect to talk about the pigs like that. Calling them filthy is like calling people in concentration camps filthy. They are a product of their wretched environment. Like you said, they don’t like being in shit. So its even worse knowing that these poor animals are so uncomfortable in every way.

      • Jami

        Exactly, you’re right in saying it’s like calling people in concentration camps filthy. it just felt a little annoying to me the way it was said and the way that it was used as a justification, almost as if the ‘filthiness’ of the animals from their environment is a needed justification for not eating them. Looking at it from that perspective, I find it gross enough to think of eating the fat, muscle, blood, etc. that makes up ‘meat’, regardless of my moral stance.

        • fenikkusu

          This is likely going to be the oddest post ever. First I’m not a vegan. But I am intelligent and I am open to hearing other views which is why I’m here. I DO believe in a healthy ecosystem and I see the obvious issues with so many things… the annihilation of rain forests for more grazing land, the methane emissions of cows, and even our governments current war on snakes because of the issues in the Everglades, which has led to a pan-demonization of snakes by the public (Trust me you don’t want to see the epidemics and pandemics that will sweep the globe when we finally destroy the last snake because they are the best defense against wild rodents that carry things like plague and hemorrhagic fevers!) Yes it needs to all work together! I have decided to cut back on meat for reasons having to do with the destruction of the earth at our hands. I will NOT give up meat however. As a woman I find it is critical to my health when I have my period and if I don’t eat red meat I drop into anemia. Perhaps there should be a consideration for women who experience heavy bleeding as a matter of course. And you can ask but yes I’ve tried Iron supplements that constipate me while I’m having cramps that’s lovely and there’s also things like spinach to incorporate and I do, I crave both steak and spinach at such times. It is what it is and that craving is telling me I need something… iron! But the reason why I’m actually answering this has to do with the pig issue. I actually like the flavor of bacon though we don’t have it often as its fat content is an issue but my personal experience has been that pigs truly are disgusting and dirty animals. My husband is a horse shoer and for many years he visited a small FAMILY (NOT FACTORY) farm. He didn’t go near the pigs but I always knew when he had visited that farm because the odor of absolute refuse, like the sort of smell you get at the local town dump seeped into his clothes! They kept a pair of pigs to breed every year and typically there were perhaps ten piglets that were very cute. I went once thinking that indeed these people must have kept them poorly. That was not the case. although there was no grass in their pen there was plenty of dry ground away from the feeding trough. But the pigs clearly didn’t want that. They went from the feeding trough with the slop dripping out of their mouths onto the mud to ROLLING in it!!! Slop is nearly a biohazard in and of itself… it is intentionally made old food (and I didn’t realize this until I read it at farm forums) It is literally any old food from the house plus some grains soaked in water until bacteria form and begin to take over! AND IT REEKS!!!! and this thing about pigs being smart…. I want to see the references on this. Its something people always say, but in reality pigs are one of the few animals that kill their young through carelessness. In fact its such an extreme issue with pigs that if you are going to breed them you have to have a specific sort of contraption that is supposed to help keep the mother from killing the piglets! Otherwise if you can reasonably be a vegan it is helpful to the planet. This is a demand sort of thing. If there is less call for meat fewer animals will be slaughtered because of feeding costs for the farmers. And that part works pretty well… farmers are always stressed financially, they aren’t the ones who are making the big bucks in this.. its all the nasty middle men. So I feel its something that we all actually CAN affect in positive ways. As for me for now, perhaps when I reach menopause I will be able to go vegetarian or vegan and be functional when I’m past the buckets of bleeding every month. Really and honestly there are times that being a woman just sucks balls. We are required by the world to be functional in our jobs etc. even though some of us are hard pressed to be able to do so! I mean there really isn’t any taking 5 days off every month because we’re basically bleeding out is there? I could totally work within such a scenario and be able to make choices that go along with my mindset. So for all you who are vegan or vegetarian, maybe there’s a place here to say thanks…
          but really pigs are gross!!! And I love animals and the piglets are adorable so if I didn’t really think they were gross I wouldn’t bother to say it. visit a local farmer who raises pigs get out of the car and breathe deeply! spend an hour looking at the cute pigs… but when you get home I recommend washing your clothes separately!!!

          • Sarah

            Hi. I am vegan and I want to tell you that if you really want a vegan solution to the menstrual “anemia” problem, try taking 1-2 oz of fresh wheat grass a day. Google the benefits and it isn’t too bad tasting. I am ignoring the rest of your post because it is nonsense but I hope that the wheat grass helps you

          • Joseph E Fasciani

            Sheez, what do we have here, a parade of saints & sinners in the meat department?

            Look, I’ve raised thousands of animals under conditions FAR superior to ‘Nature’ –what little is left of it– and I was a vegan for three years, and it was good for me. The best vegetarian food I’ve eaten in my life was prepared for me by Sikhs for whom I was working one Summer, and if all vegetarian cooking were that good we’d all be vegans, OK?

            I’ve been in horticulture for 52 yrs & have a plant registered at the Canadian Ornamental Plant Foundation in Ottawa, so I know genetics and GMOs and so on.

            We are all going to die, from a single celled organism to a blue whale. HOW we die is never known beforehand: the roll of the cosmic dice on that final play is always unknown, although we prefer some outcomes over others. Animals confined to be eaten have no choice whatsoever.

            For most humans of conscience, it’s easier to eat a clam than a cow, but the fact remains: s/he died that you could live. But even that fact does not take into account our attitude about this action, and it is this arena that offers our best chance for resolution of moral conflict.

            I am a member of the Religious Society of Friends, commonly known as Quakers, and it was amongst them that I met my first vegetarians about 45 years ago. At the time, in St Petersburg, Florida, I was surprised at how varied and good the food was!

            IF we consume other sentient beings w/some degree of spiritual involvement and moral awareness of our actions, then that is I think the most we can expect from homo saps. Of course more religious awareness could mean more vegetarianism, but even that is not a guaranteed outcome.

          • fenikkusu

            Joe you always have the best answers no matter what! a better complete word view sort of answer and it always makes me pause and think. … I didn’t know Quakers were vegetarians… have to admit here though celibacy is not going to work for me…lol. Um … yeah honestly I’d rather give up eating altogether than miss on that bliss…lol.

          • Joseph E Fasciani

            Sorry if I gave this wrong idea, as most Quakers probably eat meat, albeit likely less than the average in the nations where they live. That was simply the first time, and we have a few in my Meeting for Worship here near Elk Lake, BC.

            And let me confess now: I LOVE a dose of meat from time to time, but usually Chinese style, as one ingredient of several. Mind you, I rarely turn down a good rare steak!

          • fenikkusu

            LOLOLOL I was talking about the celibacy Joe…lololol
            it’s good to hear from you btw!

          • fenikkusu

            Thank you Sarah.
            I will look into the wheat grass!

    • Allie

      Hahaha! You have no idea what you are talking about! Try watching a documentary about factory farming and how HUMANS KEEP the animals, not only pigs. They rub agaiansdt each other all day ebcause they are stuffed into areas inside which they can’t even turn around! You really need to broaden your education dear friend.

      • Christine

        Bitch ^ they were not talking about other animals, only pigs specifically.

    • barbara horton

      I agree jamie,only reason that statement mite be true IA because that’s all the pigs are offered for their living of article guess trying to make a point but using derogatory sentences is also unacceptable to me.

    • Slipmaskin

      Yes, they don’t naturally want to be dirty, but they don’t exactly get to choose when they are cramped together in a cage on concrete floor in a slaughterhouse.

  • Alina Lewicka-Strzok

    Hate? I’ve never experienced it. They are curious, sometimes they justify their habits. Sometimes discuss the health issues. Maybe the people I meet are from another planet but since I’ m vegan (sometimes vegetarian becsuse of certsin conditions) I ‘ ve never heard any unfriendly remarks.

  • Meow

    If some vegan is preaching at me for my eating habits, I have the right to say whatever I want. So, to each their own? please?

  • Walter Neff

    “There’s this silly stereotype of the hostile, preachy vegan. I have never met one in my life.” – you write for Vegan Chowhound. Preachy writing, no less. You’re exactly what they are talking about when they stereotype.

    Could be worse, tho. I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

  • manctofu

    I avoid mentioning it as much as possible. I just can’t be bothered with the hassle. If it ever comes up accidentally, I ALWAYS have to sit through endless, tedious lectures full of the same tired, clichéd arguments. If you’re a meat eater, please try to realise that I’ve heard it all before. There is nothing you can say that will be new to me. I’m not perfect, I just don’t want to cause animals to suffer – a concept that really should not be hard to grasp. I just want to be left alone in my choice like I leave everyone else alone in theirs.

  • storm

    no surprises that conservatives avoid products which aren’t as harmful for the environment, just so they don’t feel like a ‘radical left wing hippie’. fucking pricks

  • rebecca lachance

    I dont understand why people who call vegans closed minded think that may shame us, I am certainly not ashamed to be vegan, I KNOW that suffering and murder is wrong and I will of course not change my mind.

  • Kevin Stanley

    The movie, Scott pilgrim categorizes the prejudice against vegans

  • オルソヌ ジェイ

    So if I call one of my vegan friends a fag, I’m really in a defensive posiiton..?

  • Michael McNew

    This goes into Freud’s defense mechanisms in an easy-to-understand manner and compliments the article:

  • Grrrrs

    I get always the same comments…”I hate vegans” – ” good on you, but I just simply love food too much!” – yhea, right.

    I have one concern about the “who´s business it is what I eat”…..well, in the end everyone has to decided themselves…and I´m not a pusher. But I just want to know, what would happen, if your neighbour would beat a puppy dog in his/her garden to death….would you just stand there and think: “well, it´s his/her business what he/she does with his/her dog” and would go inside and shut the door…or would you interact and tell your neigbour to stop beating that poor creature to death?

    And what about your steak? Sorry, that sometimes I just can´t sit there and watch you.

  • Paul

    These days there are many vegan adults who were born in to vegan families and have
    vegan children of their own. But the majority of us once ate animals. I try to remember this fact when speaking with argumentative or bullying people who still eat animal bodies and secretions.
    Although I resisted for years, I was able to become aware that killing and eating other creatures is cruel and unnecessary. And I have proven first-hand that other hard core meat-eaters are capable of admitting this truth too.
    I loved the taste and texture of meat and dairy – but I couldn’t keep killing animals or contributing to their suffering once I stopped trying to justify it. I realised there is no
    justification for taste-bud entertainment at the expense of innocent lives.
    Most people come to this conclusion through association with us – especially if we are good company, good friends and good examples for our awakening contacts.

  • Zenster

    I do not have a problem because I simply state that while I do not want to harm any animals I would not have a problem with beating the living shit out of you – and as a result, no one bothers me

  • HereHere

    There is a lot of ignorance out there, though. Meat eaters claim that we can’t get enough protein or that we have to combine amino acids at every meal in order to be healthy. When I look around, the ones with the most obesity, cardiovascular and diabetic problems are those who eat the most meat. You can practically predict who is going to rush in to the ER by the shape of their bodies and panting at doing very simple tasks, like putting on or taking off shoes. Not that there aren’t obese vegans, but vegans do have better health outcomes throughout life in terms of chronic disease.

    I guess my frustration is the fact that the meat eater is often very, very condescending (we evolved to eat meat, it’s natural, god gave dominion over the animals as if without responsibility to protect them…). I understand the claims about not being able to live without cheese (although the artisan cheeses these days are coming of age – pun intended). Our whole world is based on consuming animal products – you really see it when you watch TV ads or look in a grocery store flyer.

  • Lauren Snell

    What drives me insane about vegans in the US is the white privelage that comes with the territory. Personally, every time a self-righteous vegan proselytizes about the superiority of their lifestyle, I can only think they are spoiled rotten, rich, white kids bored with normative conventions. My opinions on vegans are heavily shaped on my past and current position in life. I am in my late twenties and I live (PDX) and every vegan I come accross is unemployed or underemployed by choice and lives off of mom and dad. It must be nice to be able to put your organic produce on mom’s Amex! For me, it seems like a lot of these vegans haven’t experienced REAL hunger— the type of hunger one experiences when they are poor. I find no moral high ground with the vegan argument but see it more as a status symbol. It’s saying, “I am privileged enough to deem animal products as food unfit for consumption. ” Meanwhile, nearly 50 million Americans struggle with hunger and food insecurity and vegans are complaining that omnivores make fun of them.

    • Jim Norton

      lauren, you are sterotyping (which is lazy). i doubt you have met every vegan, go to a vegan meetup and you’ll meet plenty of highly productive people who are vegans. avoiding harm to others is a moral baseline.

  • KeyLimePi

    I would love to share your article (which I love) but I have a thing about the 2% stat on the number of vegans in the US; it’s actually more like 7%, having grown a lot in the last 5 years or so. Public Polling Policy’s survey from 2012 put us at 7%, and that company was found to be more reliable than the Gallup Poll (which has an unimpressive accuracy record). Here’s PPP’s survey, you can search the word vegan in there for the stats, just Google:
    Food issues polarizing America – Public Polling Policy

    Or, if you have a better up-to-date source for your 2%, please share. Thanks for your great article.

  • Arturo Torres

    Simply amazing!

  • Kylie Moore

    Not a huge fan of Freud, but I like the article because it definitely makes a good point about how the meat eaters tend to be the pushy ones. I originally became vegan at 13 but was guilt tripped and treated like shit by my family because of it. I am an adult now and have recently returned to veganism. I have known vegetarians and they not once made me feel like shit for eating meat. Sometimes I would feel crappy when I ate meat around them but that was because I knew I was doing something that did not align with the moral person I wanted to be and not because they were the ones who made me feel bad.

    I hate it because they (the pushy meat eaters) think they are so funny or intelligent too. They aren’t.

  • Ann


  • Elle Emeno

    I love you for writing this. Thank you so much for figuring out what I have felt since I went vegan.

  • Luis

    Hi. This was a nice article. Well, i was vegan for several years, but due to health reasons i now eat honey (from my own bees) and yoghurt. But i have to say that latelly being vegan is kind of a “trend” here in Deutschland. And many of this “new vegans” actually do preach it all the time, and talk to other people like if they know everything. I try to stay out of the discussion. I had enough of it in my day… ;) But i think the most important is to show respect for other people’s choices. Instead of telling them how bad it is to eat meat and how badly treated animals are, i think it would be better to tell how healthy a vegan diet is, invite the people to eat at your place something cooked by you (or even cook together). Instead of trying to give a bad opinion about meat-eating (because people will get defensive), just try to give a positive one about vegan diet.

    Oh, and please don’t do like a friend of mine who is one of this “new vegans”, who ordered the “Italian Meat Breakfast” saying “oh, it’s ok, on weekends i still eat meat!”.


  • Tames Moterani

    I’d add that, besides causing hatred against vegans, the same mechanism is what, in many cases, makes it difficult for people to make a change (if they deny something, they can’t think about it). it happens in discussions between vegetarians and meat eaters, as well as between vegetarians and vegans. Whenever I enter a discussion of the later type, vegetarians accuse me of being heretical, they give excuses as for why they are not vegan that make no sense at all. People just go completely irrational on these debates, very often.

  • RW_M

    * distroying = destroying

  • Gallifreyan Refugee

    his isnt why people dislike vegans… none of this.

    First before we get too far I eat meat. Now I try to get organic as much as possible but cant always do so due to cost. And really we can only do the best we can with what we have.

    My diet gets me automatically hated by most vegans… doesnt matter if I bought organic meat or factory farmed or if I took care of and killed my own cow… no matter how well I took care of that cow. Because an animal died! Why is it ok for other animals to kill and eat other animals but for some reason its not for humans? We are animals and we are part of nature.

    I find not just hate for people who eat meat but vegans hate other vegans if that vegan isnt completly following the vegan life style! If a person is transitioning into being vegan lets say their diet is vegan but they have a leather belt… tgey will be hated they will reseave death threats… despite having that belt before and just not getting rid of it. Not a perfect vegan? Then you will be hated. They tend to also hate people who say for health reasons I cant be a vegan… boy do vegans hate that. But worse then that are people who stopped being vegan because it made them ill. Other vegans will bash this person, give death threats, and call this person a liar! Really this mentality is quite poor taste and a turn off.

    Louis C.K. made me laugh there… but I can answer this for you… there are a few factors to concider. One is culture… where you live dictates what you eat example bugs. The second is lvl of cuteness we want cute things for pets we eat the less cute. Example kitten vs cow. Third would be lvl of intelligence… we value intelligence in both other people and animals. Example a dolphin is way more intelligent than a tuna. Another thing to concider is what was the animal domesticated for? Dogs for hunting and cows to feed us.

    I have no doubt you suffer some stupid responses to your lifestyle. But dont be so quick to judge! People who eat meat suffer some highly stupid things as well! Yes its true.

    An example of this would be claiming that humans are not omnivores. Its fine to eat what you want… its reaching l vls of ridiculousness to claim we were never ment to be omnivores! I almost feel these vegans never went to school and dont know how to reasearch things properly… or maybe they were picking apples and fell and bumped their head. Whatever the cause its again a turn off to be told your bot supposed to eat meat. And is really a divorce from reality!

    As for ancestors… why wouldnt you look at them? We evolved from them… we evolved consuming both meat and plants. People might be using this because well its actually logical for what is natural… what we evolved to consume. This is a good argument for vegans who claim meat is not a natural part of our diet… but supplements are… and fruit/veggies shipped and flown from all over are defiantly natural? Its fine if you want to be vegan… fine and good. But to make claims listed above well….

    Can you live on a plant based diet you say? Maybe is the answer… some can. .. some cant. Another reason you might not be well liked is this line of view that literally every human (if they can afford it as a luxury ) can live on plants! Why do Vegas think their diet is so copy and past? Even an omnivore diet isnt copy and past. people can have allergies, illnesses, money, not being able to absorb nutrients from supplements! Tge list could probably go on! Your diet isnt for everyone… get over it.

    People wanting to fight you because your vegan? That’s absolutely laughably ridiculous! The people that did that also must be retarded.

    I agree animals can feel pain! We are more intelligent and in obtaining our meat I believe the no pain method is best. Why make an animal suffer? There is no point to a slow agonizing death. But there is a reason for the animal to die and that is to feed us. I know you dont agree on you plant based vegan lifestyle. But since I know im an omnivore and do best on a diet of both I have to disagree with you… but I dont hate you or get angry at your choice in food.

    I think what might turn most people off is the vegan attitude. The fact that many use scar tactics, false or manipulated information, and even bully people. Yes I have seen this all over. Also the fact that vegans almost seem like a cult… that can be a little off putting to say the least.

    I must point out that not all vegans are like this. There are kinder more understanding vegans who dont try to shove it in your face… generally good people… I applaud them.

  • Beth Aaron

    Last evening before recording, as I’ve done for years, the local school board meeting, I asked the principal of Kennett High School, attended by many sending town students, about doing something for US VEG WEEK at the school. He promptly replied that it was national hamburger month.. Then his colleagues had a chuckle, one, the principal of Kennett Middle school , the other the head of career tech… I felt bullied.

  • Della Jo Wilson Piarulli

    I am a proud Vegan. :)

  • dairy is rape

    damn, NO MORE psychology terms? :( i was enjoying. btw, mentioning factory farms is totally doing no service at all….to the animals. perpetuating some humane myth. thank you.

  • Martine Atherton

    You haven’t met a preachy vegan? I find that hard to believe. Every article vaguely hinting of the environment or health or animal welfare or the latest recipe will bring them out. They will pop up on articles that have absolutely no bearing on their favorite topic. They use very manipulative, emotion laden words in their onslaught and will not listen to any other point of view.
    I call them the evangelical vegans as opposed to the many wonderful folk I know who have made their personal choices simply their personal choice for whatever reason.
    I have had discussions with fundamentalist Muslims and young earth creationists but it is only from the evangelical vegans do I receive vile hate mail.

    • Amanda Kenneally

      Funny. One of the closest people to me is an ARA and a photographer. It is so frequent that she doesn’t bother to tell me anymore how often she receives rape and death threat from AnAg farmers!

  • fenikkusu

    To the author Mike Lee.
    This is a win!
    look at all these comments!
    The brilliant thing here is that people are stopping, discussing, sharing their views, debating the efficacy and profound meaning. They are waxing philosophical about all of this and yes they are challenging.
    We only grow when we are challenged. We only learn we are challenged.
    You’ve done that!
    From that standpoint alone this is a brilliant article!

  • Steve Bakewell

    “People are fundamentally good”
    There’s no such thing as “fundamentally good” human..

    “Think about how awful an average factory farm is.”
    Not any worse than this :-

    “Imagine the thought of killing an animal and it’s screams of agony.”
    We pretty much were meat eaters before we started growing plants,so its not in my “nature” to empathize with animals that have been programmed as “FOOD” in my brain by millions of years of evolution..

    The only animals that we humans can empathize with are domesticated like horses&dogs and even then we eat them in some cultures.

    So i’m sorry I DO NOT feel sorry for the animals who die and i do not think anything is WRONG with killing animals either.. its a part of NATURE if you can’t accept it perhaps YOU’RE the one who’s in denial!

    You know why people hate Vegans? because they’re Elitists and moral police.. they claim that they’re better than others and they shame meat-eaters and even vegetarians which RIGHTFULLY pisses them off.

    “Rationalization: Avoiding a hard truth”
    Presenting biological FACTS is not rationalization!

    “Can humans be healthy and survive on a vegan diet. Yes”

    Can an entire country survive on a vegan diet? NO!
    Can all 7 BILLION humans on earth survive on a Vegan diet? HELL NO!

    “Factory farms don’t contribute to the poisoning of the earth”
    Actually they aren’t really any more polluting the earth then industrial farming is.

    BTW louis C.K’s video was IGNORANT! Dolphin are one of the most intelligent animals on earth after Humans.. yes there is a BIG difference between a dumb fish and a dolphin which can form bond with Humans!

    Perhaps what i HATE most about you vegans is that because of you pricks we vegetarians are also met with the same stigma!

    “People, with their half baked philosophical arguments, can become condescending and hostile.”

    “I have had people argue that animals are not sentient beings. That they can’t feel pain.”
    But some animals really DON’T feel pain.. like lobsters&frogs for ex.

    “Meat does not contain all sorts of growth hormones and antibiotics.”
    And Vegetables don’t contain all sorts of pesticides&fertilizers? LOLZ

  • James Thorpe

    People hate vegans for the same reason they hate Mormons – they go around telling other people what to think. They shove their own beliefs down other peoples throats. That´s why people hate vegans.

    I think it´s great that people are vegans, especially when they actively promote environmentally friendly behaviour and sustainability. Leading by example is a strong, healthy, morally responsible way to live your life.

  • Douglas Jack

    Wonderful article describes the defence mechanisms & false accusations which vegans face daily in society today. I’m vegetarian 43 years, vegan 27 years & 80% raw 16 years. However I learned culturally from living among 50,000 Dukobour & other pacifist vegetarians. Learning was a process of being invited for dinner, to help in the orchard & gardens, making friends. The cultural component of welcoming community-economy is essential if we want the whole world to rediscover its veggie ‘indigenous’ (Latin ‘self-generating’) heritage as stewards of the worldwide Polyculture Orchard.

    All humanity’s indigenous ancestors lived in multihome dwelling (Longhouse/apartment, Pueblo/townhouse & Kanata/village) complexes with privacy but as well where culture of female-male intergenerational collaboration thrives.

    Its time to go back to the future.

  • Chris

    Just reading this article, the disparaging remarks, the sense of superiority, as well as the incredibly arrogant comments will explain why people hate Vegans. People hate vegans because they write articles like this. They pretend that they are morally superior because they have chosen a specific diet, and never pass an opportunity to criticize anyone who hasn’t agreed to deny nature and pretend that other animals aren’t food. You have never met one of these Vegans? look in the mirror and introduce yourself.

  • Stu Berkowitz

    You made some very good points in your blog post/rant. However, please don’t publish a piece with so many grammatical, spelling and punctuation errors; you lose a good percentage of your audience, and your credibility comes into question, which is a real shame when you have something important and valid to say.

    To wit:

    “…and it’s (sic) screams of agony.” This
    is a contraction of “it is”. “Its” is the third person singular possessive
    pronoun you should have used.

    “…and distroying (sic) the planet.” “Destroying” is how that word is

    “…sacrifice that vegan’s (sic) strive for.” “Vegans” is plural. “Vegan’s” is
    indicating possession.

    “We all hide, some just do it behind burnt pig flesh.” Use a semi-colon after
    hide, not a comma.

    “,,,actual baby calfs (sic) are…” The
    plural of calf is “calves”, not “calfs (sic)”!

    “That’s the reaction formation at work; And so
    is the fetishizing of bacon.” If you’re going to use a semi-colon
    after the word “work”, then don’t use the word “And” (and you don’t capitalize
    a word after a semi-colon unless it’s a proper noun). If you want to use “and” where
    you did, place a comma before it, and don’t capitalize it!

    shouldn’t of (sic) had kids…” You meant “shouldn’t’ve”, as in
    “shouldn’t have”, not “of”. Besides, you can’t use a “double contraction” (no
    such thing – bad form, and grammatically incorrect)! So, you need to use “…shouldn’t

    “…the bible (sic) and god (sic)…” “Bible”
    and “God” are proper nouns – capitalize them!

  • ladonichais

    If part of the school curriculum involved showing children the truth of where their food comes from i.e not from the local supermarket but a slaughter house, there would be very few meat eaters. Meat comes in neat little pieces its not an animal. If you live in a city you don’t even see the lorries carrying these poor creatures. I gave up meat when I moved to the country and witnessed the animals on the way to slaughter. meat eaters will never ask why you are a vegie or vegan during a meal where meat is served because telling them what happens to animals puts them off their food and its your fault.

  • Chester Thomas

    How do you know if someone is a vegan? Don’t worry, they will tell you….repeatedly. actually they will try to shove it down your throat, probably insult you and go on rants about animal suffering, global warming, methane emissions, meat is disgusting and blah blah blah. If your a vegan, good on you. But when it comes to MY food mind your own damn business, especially if your not paying my food bill.

  • mr.redmeatboiiiiiiiiiii8887249

    people hate a lot of vegans because a lot of vegans are twats

  • Kjersti Nyhagen

    It must be very satisfying to convince yourself that people feel threatened by your diet, and that that must be the reason they are rude to you. Fact of the matter is that I’ve never met a single fucking vegan who wasn’t preachy about it, and who holds extreme views like comparing meat-eating with murder and who thinks that people are hypocritical if they love their pet and oppose animal abuse, but still eat meat. Most vegans, with very few exceptions, are rude, aggressive people who think themselves morally superior and who can’t stop preaching even if their life depended on it. And that is why the world will never stop hating vegans. Oh, but I guess that’s just a defensive strategy, because we feel so threatened. Poor, scared meat eaters are so scared, because the vegan is telling us that we are immoral for eating meat :((( NO, you whore! You are annoying and therefore people are rude to you. Get it through your thick skull!

  • Simon

    Thanks! This was so nice to read, I live in norway and I am also a vegan. Norway is really small and have a horrible meat culture, and lately I lost confidence because of it. Im so happy after reading this, there really are people like me in the world :) Fuck people living in denial! As Ghandi said: Be the change you want to see in the world!ï

  • Steve Bakewell

    @rebecca_mooney:disqus @csarhumbertocruzgarca:disqus @trc7eastnytheory:disqus @raytiberiusadler:disqus @disqus_M2YJ5G9FQO:disqus @vsresident:disqus
    DOES ANYONE OF YOU VEGAN “STALWARTS” HAVE THE BALLS TO actually respond to my ACTUAL arguments about Industrial agriculture and its destruction of nature&animals? instead of just leaving snide&immature remarks like a 12 yr olds?